Disability and the Church with Emily Robillard

What if the measure of a healthy church isn’t polish, but belonging? We sit down with Emily Robillard, leader of disability ministry at Woodridge Church and longtime staff at Hammer Residences, to explore how communities can move past surface-level inclusion toward a culture where people with disabilities are seen, empowered, and invited to contribute.

Emily’s story starts with proximity: a childhood shaped by neighbors from a group home and parents who treated difference as ordinary. That early formation became a vocation she never planned, guiding her into residential care where coaching daily skills—budgeting, cooking, work readiness—replaces pity with possibility. She shares vivid snapshots of life in group homes, the staffing and rhythms that make growth possible, and why the same mindset can (and should) shape church life.

We then step into Tuesday nights, a weekly service alive with flags, shakers, spontaneous prayers, and zero shame. Seventy adults worship in their own ways without being hushed, and volunteers learn that belonging is discovered through contribution: an autistic fifth grader thrives as part of a safety team; a hockey-loving congregant is welcomed on the ice at a fundraiser. Along the way, we name barriers churches cite, such as time, space, or volunteers, and answer them with Scripture’s urgency (think Mark 2 and a roof turned into a doorway) and practical tools: buddies, sensory spaces, family collaboration, and training focused on individuals rather than labels.

This conversation blends pastoral warmth with missional clarity: people with disabilities represent a vast, often unreached community. When we trade performance for presence and programs for relationships, everyone changes. You’ll leave with concrete next steps—pray, notice who’s already near, read the Gospels through a disability lens—and a renewed vision for a church where joy is louder than perfection.

Mentioned in this episode

• Accessible Church by Sandra Peoples
• Jesus and Disability by Chris H. Hulshof
• Abilities Ministry https://abilityministry.com/

Transcript

Setting The Vision: Beyond Inclusion

Mac 0:02

Welcome to Practice, a podcast where we explore how to practice and embody the way of Jesus in our everyday lives. Thanks so much for taking the time to listen. Right now, we're in a short series on disability in the church, and I want to encourage you not to tune out. Did you know that roughly 17 to 20 percent of the population lives with a disability? That's far more people than many of us realize. Statistically, chances are high that either you or someone close to you is part of that number. Yet, far too often people with disabilities find themselves pushed to the margins. In a culture that tends to value people for what they can do or how much they can achieve, those with disabilities are frequently overlooked or perceived as having little to contribute. And while our society has made real progress toward greater inclusion, which we want to celebrate, we're convinced that inclusion alone is not enough, especially in the church. So in this series, we're exploring how to move beyond mere inclusion toward becoming a community of genuine belonging. And today we're gonna have a conversation with a friend of mine, Emily Robelard, from Woodridge Church in Medina, Minnesota. So let's get into it. Josiah texted me at like 6:37 this morning saying he thinks he has strep throat. So at the last minute, uh I've invited my wife, Josie, to be part of hosting today. You guys hopefully all know Josie. She was part of the first uh podcast in this series, part of our preaching team at Cross Point. So thanks for jumping in, Josie.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Yeah, it's great to be here. And I love this conversation, so it's gonna be a great time.

Mac 2:04

And then the second and key guest is Emily. Uh, Emily, we first met. We haven't known each other for very long. We met just this past October. I was in the Twin Cities doing a training with the Leaders Journey at the church here on staff, you and your husband at Woodridge Church. And at some point during the day, maybe I had shared some of my story, and you came up and you said, Look, I I over spe oversee special needs for our church and work at a residential program. And we just got talking, and I was like, Oh, it would be so good um to have you as a guest. You are married to Dan, who um I'll just tell you, he has by far the best beard I have ever seen. Like our community knows us, it's just so impressive. I have beard envy big time. Um, he is the associate pastor of community and connection at Woodridge. You have two daughters, Harley and Hazel.

unknown 3:08

Yes.

Mac 3:08

And one fun fact that I get to see on Facebook quite a bit is that you guys have a hobby farm.

SPEAKER_04 3:14

So cool. We do. It was um it was a dream of mine. Uh we during COVID, um, I was like, I pushed a lot for it, and I said, Dan, you know, we're not going anywhere. Like, let's give this a try. So we started with just a couple chickens, and that's how it all begins. They call them like the gateway pets.

Mac 3:34

Yeah, that's the slippery slope and the goats and pigs.

SPEAKER_04 3:38

Yep, yep. So right now we have 10 chickens, four goats, uh, two bunnies that roam around our house. They're actually litter box trained. Oh my god. And over Christmas, we yeah, yeah. So they have like their own little litter box. And then over Christmas, we got a kitten. So now we have a kitten.

Mac 3:56

That's a lot to care, care for, I would imagine. It keeps you busy.

SPEAKER_04 4:01

It does, but it's so therapeutic. Um, you know, if you're ever really overwhelmed and overstimulated with people, I just like go out to the barn and they love you no matter what, especially if you have treats. So it's just like these are my friends. These are my and they don't talk to me, they just want to cuddle and eat snacks.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

So I love that. Um, do you do you um feed them like people food? Do you make it for them and cook and stuff like that? Or do you just yeah, yeah?

SPEAKER_04 4:31

So our chickens are very spoiled, especially when it gets cold here. Yeah, um, and they love like warm oatmeal. Um, so we do that a lot. Yeah, the goats' favorite snacks are either animal crackers or gram crackers. So if you if you have them, they can smell them like a mile away and they will come running and rip at your pockets. Yeah. So yep, they get they all get special food.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

So your grocery bill must be fun.

SPEAKER_04 4:56

Right? Yeah. But it's actually been good because um chickens can eat a lot of like compost type stuff that you would you know throw out. So um, we have like a little bin that we've kept and just said if there's extra food, um, you know, let's let's use it and give it to the chickens. And you know, the one weird fact that always grossed me out, grosses people out is that chickens like meat. And so, like, if their eggs are soft, you can give them scrambled eggs and it'll harden the shells. It's really interesting. It's a weird, yeah, it's a weird circle of life, but they love like any sort of meat, which interesting feels weird.

Winter Coping And Cold Plunges

Mac 5:32

Yeah, that is a little odd. Typically, we start each episode with some banter. And one question I had for you, especially in light of the hobby farm, is what is your what is your mental state right now, really for both of you, in February, knowing it's winter time. And I'll just confess, I'm usually pretty good with the winter, um, like engaging the weather, the snow, the cold through the holidays. Cause it kind of there's a nostalgic piece. And then January is kind of like this. Oh, I'm starting to get a little cranky. And by February, I could like I'm just holding on.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:13

Yeah, yep. Yep. I I saw the funniest meme where it was like this beautiful, you know, spring and summer day, and this woman's out feeding her chickens, and then they're like, it's all fun and games until winter hits. And then they she they show this woman with like head to toe covered up. You have to bring out water buckets because the water freezes. Like, yeah, yeah. So I I am with you in that where once February hits, I'm I'm over it. I don't really look forward to spring either because of the mud, and it just gets really messy here. But I will, um, I am not the best at it, but my husband does cold plunging. Oh. And so he goes and cuts a hole in the lake, and that kind of like you get a new appreciation for winter because you just jump in and you sit there and you're like, all right, this is cold. But it's weird because sometimes the water temperature itself is warmer than the air. So you sit in it and you're like, Yeah, I don't want to get out now because it's really, really cold out there. But that's been kind of a way to appreciate sitting in the winter, is is to do that.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

That's awesome. We also cold plunge. We don't have a little hole in. But yeah, too. Oh, we have a tub in our basement. Yeah, yeah. We have to like do the chiller and cool the water down.

Mac 7:29

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

Yep. Yep. I get it.

Mac 7:32

I get it. There was a year, a couple years where I just had a big trough outside of my backyard. And I'm pretty sure my neighbors thought I was crazy because I'd run out of my in my undies, jump in. Yeah, but it's a good routine and I love it.

SPEAKER_04 7:48

Yeah, it is, and especially like here, you just have a better appreciation when you're sitting in the frozen lake, you know, you're looking around, and sometimes it's snowing. It can be pretty, but it's also like you gotta find something to do to absolutely appreciate the cold. Yeah.

Early Formation Around Difference

Mac 8:03

Well, speaking of goats and cold plunging and ground crackers, yeah. Um, let's jump into a little bit. You work in uh you work in a residential setting and lead uh disability ministry at Woodridge. But I would love just to hear a bit about your story and when did disability first become part of your world?

SPEAKER_04 8:26

Yeah, so I have a really unique story that I didn't appreciate until I started like looking back at it. I actually grew up with a residential group home in my neighborhood. Um, and we also had a very diverse neighborhood. We had Egyptian immigrants, um, we had this family of Samoan descent from Hawaii, which was super cool. Um, and then like right down the street from us, we had this big Irish Catholic family with eight kids. So there was a lot of um kind of diversity that I grew up around. And I remember playing outside with all of our neighbors. There were so many kids, and the adults from the group home came out and asked if they could play with us. And as a young kid, we were like, adults that want to play, like these people are really cool. They would come out and play with us, and I will never forget they always wanted to play Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and you know, being young, and in the 90s, we were like, Yeah, this is this is awesome. So I always grew up um just around different people, and my parents really stressed that you know, no matter what, you treat people with kindness and respect. And um, you know, we'd go over to the um Egyptian family, and the way they cooked was very different. They cooked on the floor with their hands, and it was just a learning experience, you know, it's like, oh, cool, like they do it differently than my mom does at home. Um, so it it's always been part of our family to just treat people no matter what they sounded like, what they looked like, um, with respect. And I was a very friendly kid when I was little, and so I was always paired with kids who needed a buddy in class. And then in it was like first and second grade, I would go down to a special room and help kids learn to be friends. So I was always with people who are different. Um, I was very comfortable around them, behaviors never bothered me. Um, so it was neat to look back and see that God was like totally preparing my heart for where I am now. That just it just doesn't bother me. And I just see them as people.

Mac 10:31

Where did you grow up? What what was the community?

SPEAKER_04 10:34

Yeah, so I grew up in Wysetta, Minnesota. Yep. Um, which my mom always jokes we weren't on like the fancy side of Wizetta, we were on like the other side. So it was yeah, just a regular, I don't know, it was an awesome childhood being in the neighborhood I was in.

Mac 10:52

So it's an interesting convergence because clearly your parents instilled some sort of value here for you. Like your parents modeled um a Jesus-centered perspective around diversity that you absorbed and then got to experience.

SPEAKER_03 11:09

Yeah.

Mac 11:09

And it clearly then rippled out not only in your neighborhood, but also into your presence at school.

SPEAKER_04 11:16

Yeah, yeah. And even, you know, growing up that way, that's how Dan and I um wanted to raise our daughters too, was that no matter what someone looked like, what they sounded like, if they were in a wheelchair, you know, whatever the circumstance was. Um, and that my girls have been coming to visit the group home ever since they were babies. So to them, it's really neat to see they have that same view of people now where it's like a person is a person. We're all, you know, made in God's image. And yeah, they are very comfortable too.

Mac 11:47

But it's also counter-cultural um because I think the natural human instinct is to surround ourselves with people like us who give us a sense of comfort or stability.

SPEAKER_03 11:59

Yeah.

Mac 12:00

And it seems that part of this work is to do the exact opposite, to actually like um to intentionally step outside your comfort zone and experience diversity, people who aren't like you with a genuine openness.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mac 12:16

Almost like a hospitality of heart.

Finding A Calling In Residential Care

SPEAKER_04 12:19

Yeah. And it's when I was talking with Dan about some of this stuff, he even said um when we were dating in college, I worked in um kind of the same group home, but it was for uh younger kids. And he would meet us at the park and stuff, and how it opened his eyes too, to be like, oh, you know, there's nothing, I hate using the word fear, but there's nothing to be afraid of with someone who's different. Like they're just people and you know, they're funny and they have feelings, and just yeah, so it's been a shaping time for him as well.

Mac 12:50

And they love teenage mutant ninja turtles, and yes, um, I get it.

SPEAKER_04 12:55

Oh my gosh.

Mac 12:56

I grew up in the 90s, and I actually have an embarrassing story. When I was in kindergarten, um, I begged my parents for teenage mutant ninja turtle uh whitey tidies. Yes. And I got them, and this was in Minnesota in the wintertime. We were coming in from recess, and there was a sorry Joe, there was a girl that I kind of had a crush on. And so this classroom, like the place where you hung up all your snow gear, was sort of behind the blackboard. We didn't have whiteboards, there were blackboards back in the day. And so I'm back there, and this girl that I thought was kind of cute was back there too. And I went to take my snow pants off and ended up pulling down my sweatpants too. And you think I would have been like really proud. Like, check out my Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle. Yeah, but I was so mortified.

SPEAKER_04 13:50

Oh my goodness. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, I don't know what it was. And one of the women from the home always wanted to be Shredder, so she was always the bad guy. And she was like, And what is so amazing about how God works is so she always stuck out to my mind. I we loved playing with her, um, just a wonderful woman. And when I started going to the Tuesday night church, she was actually there. And she had suffered some strokes and she ended up in a wheelchair, so she didn't have a lot of recollection, but I was just like, oh my gosh, that's that's Lisa from when we were little, and and she's here. It was just really cool. Oh, I love it. You know, you don't you don't know who God brings back around and when. And yeah, it was so cool.

SPEAKER_00 14:37

Yeah, it sounds like your upbringing was so immersive in this like eclectic community that it just became part of life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:46

Yep, and and there was lots of um, there was a family who did foster care, like there was just a lot of different families. And you know, my parents were just yeah, very like, no, we don't exclude someone for anything, we always include and just um just yeah, they're people.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

I love that. Yeah, so tell us kind of about the transition then. Like you grew up immersed in this, and obviously there had to have been a moment in time where you sort of felt called to pursue this as a career or a life path. So tell us about that time.

SPEAKER_04 15:23

Yeah, and you know, that that was all God led as well. Um, when I went down, I went to college at Winona State University, um, which is like two hours kind of south of the cities. Um, and I had tried a lot of jobs that I knew were not for me. Um I worked in a juvenile detention center. Um, and that was definitely, I was only there for like a week.

Mac 15:45

And I that was really, really hard. I could have told you like a week after and like 30 seconds into meeting you, this is not gonna go well.

Inside Hammer Residences: Daily Life And Goals

SPEAKER_04 15:53

No, I walked in and I was like, oh, and I was like, nope, you've got to use you're gonna give it a try. Like, oh wow, nope. Um I did hospice care, which was also very, yeah, very difficult. Um, I worked in hospitality and hotels and just craft stores. Um, and it all just, you know, it was a paycheck. Um, but my cousin who lived in Winona at the time had worked in um a group home company and she's like, why don't you just try this? Um, you know, see if you like it. And it was different than an adult group home. It was for kids. So um under 18. And what we'd do is we would pick them up from school and we'd bring them to this house. Um and I think it was a license, like under the daycare licensing. I I don't really remember. Um, but we would help with like homework, um any of the life skills they were working on, and then just hang out, go to the YMCA and play, and then we would bring them back to their um to their homes. And then like on the weekends, the families could sign up for respite care. So then the kid, we would stay with the kid the whole weekend um and find activities. And that I just like completely fell in love with the kids I worked with, um wide range of disabilities, oh, from like non-verbal to um, you know, very challenging behaviors. But I just like I loved it. And so um towards the end of my college career, I had to come home for a family emergency and I needed a job, and so I remembered the group home that we grew up with, and I remembered college, and I was like, um, let's see what's here. So I Googled um group homes and I found a company called Hammer Residences. I applied and they hired me for their program manager and training. And in my mind, I'm like, this is just a summer job, like this can't be a career. Like, you know, you're just going into it with your plans. Yeah. And um, I am still there 18 and a half years later. And just I love I love it. Like, you know, it was yeah, it wasn't like one aha moment, but it was like God just said, no, here you go.

SPEAKER_00 17:53

Like, yeah, you know, like a group of moments led to I want to give my life to this.

SPEAKER_04 17:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just that it worked for my family life, it just worked in so many areas. Um and and once you're kind of there, it's very hard to leave because they become family. And it's just yeah, it was such an awesome experience, and yeah, then I'm still there.

Mac 18:17

One of the things that stands out to me is just how God has been writing your story and how you've been just surrendering to it with a certain degree of delight and joy each step of the way. And it just for our listeners, it just makes me curious. Not everybody obviously is going to end up in a residential set setting with people who have disabilities, but like if you reflect on your story, what are some of the key moments that God has been doing something through your experiences, shaping you so that you can step into a deeper sense of calling and purpose, you know?

SPEAKER_04 18:54

Yeah, yeah. It was a lot of um thinking about you know where I came from and then trying the jobs that I tried and seeing like my heart is like caregiver. I that is just part of me. And so it was finding like, okay, what what type of caregiving can I do? And then just yeah, the the opportunities and just God being like, you know, you have to come home. If you need a job, what it what kind of job? And I knew what I didn't want to do, um, you know, and I yeah, he just was writing it and there the whole time. And um, yeah, it's it's very hard to explain just being like, okay, well, I'm in this moment. This is kind of the need of the moment, and God, where where should I go from here? And then it was kind of like he provided, and then it's like, okay, now we'll go to the next moment. What's this next moment like? Um, you know, especially when I um had our first daughter, I was still the manager of the group home. And in my mind, I'm like, I'm still gonna be the manager. Um, it was there was a couple high medical needs. Um, and so I was trying to balance like how can I still be a mom and be on call all the time. Um, and you know, God works in crazy ways. I ended up having a lot of postpartum depression, which then forced me to take a step back from the manager role. But my director came to me and said, Well, you don't have to be a manager, you can just work two overnights. And I was like, Oh, thank like I can do that. And so then I was able to be at home, take care of myself, but then I was still involved. So it was just this crazy way that God yeah.

Mac 20:32

Yeah, continued to pave the way. And oftentimes, you know, I think we want the entire path lit up and so we know what's going to happen. And it just doesn't work that way. It's no one step at a time, the one trust-filled step at a time, not always knowing what the future is going to hold.

SPEAKER_03 20:51

No, yeah.

Mac 20:52

I'd like, I'd love to get some more detail about what your work looks like at the residential facility at Hammer. So just fill that out. I mean, you've been there for over 18 years. What do they do? What do you do? What do you enjoy about it? Fill it out for us.

Sacrifice, Rhythm, And Family Support

SPEAKER_04 21:09

Yeah. So um at Hammer, there are probably, I think we're up to like 36 group homes around the twin cities, um, Golden Valley, Eden Prairie, Plymouth, Wysetta. And then I believe we're up to about five or six um apartment programs. So for people who um are higher functioning and you know, um we they have their own apartment, but the company also has a staff apartment, so they come in and check in. Um but at the group home that I am at, there's four women, and um they all go to either like a day program during the day. Um, two of them have jobs. One worked at a hair salon, which was like her dream job, and the other one is a teacher's assistant at a daycare. So um she she's just amazing at that job. Um, so they're gone during the day. Um, they have transportation to their to their work or day programs. Um when they come home, they It's you know, normal life, quote unquote, normal life. Like they come home, they're tired, they want to just like watch a show or play on their iPad. Um, every individual has like a team of people that come up with kind of life skills and goals that they want this person to work on. And so depending on those goals, it can be anything from like laundry to exercise, um, cooking goals, um, financial goals. So sitting down and kind of going through money um and bills. So throughout the evening, we kind of run those goals as as needed and as just in a normal routine. So if it's a cooking goal, they're gonna help with dinner. Um, if it's their laundry day, they're gonna work on their laundry. And usually there's about two staff. Um, the past couple years we've definitely hit a staffing shortage. Um, and so the goal is always to have two on um on in the house, but um sometimes we don't always get that. Um and so yeah, and then um in Minnesota, we have we're so blessed with a lot of nonprofits that do activities. So they can sign up for art, you know, they can go to um a Zumba class, uh, they do pizza and movie nights, bowling. So there's love Zumba. Yes, oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

I bet that's so fun.

Launching Disability Ministry At Woodridge

SPEAKER_04 23:19

Oh yeah, it is. Um, and it was really cool pre-COVID. They they don't do it now, unfortunately, but pre-COVID, the local YMCA um had a Zumba class every Wednesday night, and a lot of people from Hammer would go. And the instructors were just so kind and like, I mean, it was a party, and you were getting a workout in too. So it was always it was always really fun. But um, yeah, so each each individual has those goals, um, and activities kind of vary depending on the level of ability as well. So some of the other homes, um, you know, the the life skills look a little different. Um, but they still have stuff that you know you want someone to keep striving and working on. Um and yeah, so then um, is that work mostly in the evenings for you? Yes, yep, yep. So it's mostly like the afternoon, evenings, probably like 3 p.m. to about nine, is you know, double staffed and going or doing things. And then um, yeah, and then you go to bed. Um, like I said, I do overnights, so I sleep there. And um what's amazing is when I had littles, I would always be like, okay, Dan, I'm going to work. And I got to go sleep. Like, because you get paid, um, there's no medical needs throughout the night at the group home I'm in. So I get paid like a chunk of sleep. And I'm like, this is amazing. Get paid to sleep. Yes. There's no baby crying for me. Like, so yeah, it's just, and you wake up and help them kind of run through the process of getting ready in the morning um for their rides to come, and then they go off to their day programs or jobs.

Mac 24:52

So wow. So that I can see I'm starting to kind of connect the dots that like the whole family to a certain degree is invested in this because it taps into evenings multiple days a week where you're like staying overnight and kind of those peak home hours from three to nine, like that's a lot of action for a family with young kids.

SPEAKER_04 25:13

Yeah, yep. And and it's kind of like across the board for anyone who works in this field, that's kind of, you know, what you see is that it does take away from your personal family life. But um, you know, my girls loved having just dad those two nights that I would be at work. And and would I have done it since they were babies, so that's what we knew. That was what our family did. Um, like I said, they knew the ladies I was going to go be with, and they were like, okay, well, tell them I say hi. I'm like, okay. So it just becomes like this it's family. It's your rhythm. Yeah.

Mac 25:47

It's your rhythm. But I think there's a lesson there that I want to highlight. Obviously, this is part of your employment, so you're getting paid to do this. But then when you start talking about how like there's so many nonprofits or organizations that come in to do these programs, it strikes me as very significant. There's a lot of things that sort of act on people's time and energy. And many people feel like, oh, I can't add anything to my plate. And I think it just highlights this point that if you're going to engage meaningfully in life and prioritize some sense of diversity by including and even creating context of belonging for people with disabilities, you're gonna have to sacrifice in some way.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Mac 26:31

It isn't just gonna happen. You're gonna have to maybe uh not watch Netflix. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 26:37

Or right?

Mac 26:39

There's gonna be some time-energy sacrifice that's required um in order to prioritize becoming the kind of community that God wants us to be.

SPEAKER_04 26:49

Yeah, exactly. Especially if you know you you're a church that provides any sort of um respite night out, or you know, just any of those things. That's that's a commitment that you're gonna make. Um, but it it's worth it.

Mac 27:02

It's worth it. Totally.

unknown 27:04

Yeah.

Mac 27:04

So let's jump over to the church uh world because you don't just work at Hammer, you're also leading things in your community at Woodridge. So what does that look like? Are you gone every night of the week? Like what's happening? I know.

Tuesday Night Church: Worship Without Judgment

SPEAKER_04 27:19

I know. You know, and and this again is where God is just so good and we are so blessed. Um, with you know, a little the little backstory is my husband um worked at Best Buy Corporate for almost the same amount of years that I was at Hammer, and he was let go. He was let go almost the same time I was hired at the church to do special needs ministry. So I was like, okay, like I can work one and a half jobs, and he stayed at home. Um, and so that was the season we were in. It was about a year. And then when he was hired at church, I was able to step back um on my hours from Hammer. So now I only go in at 9 p.m. So I'm home with my girls, which um I have a 13-year-old, and yeah, and she actually said she wanted me home. So I'm like, I need to be there if I can't. Capitalize on that. Yeah, yeah. Not gonna miss that opportunity. So um, so God just shaped our schedule just crazy. So now I get to be home. So the nights I'm gone, yeah, are Tuesday nights and then Wednesday nights. But um, otherwise, you know, I go in at 9 p.m. My girls are already either in bed or getting ready for bed. So it's just yeah, the past three years have been just a wild ride for us um following where God is going. But that, you know, this Tuesday night um is kind of how it all started for me and even for Woodridge. Um, so the group home I was in, I worked on Tuesdays, um, and I would bring these women to the Tuesday night church service. And um, it was ran by a man named Pastor Don Anderson, and he ran it for 47 years. Now it was, yes, it his story is also just incredible. Like God it just used him in just the most amazing ways, and it's um it's been a blessing to know him. And like I got to intern under him, which is just so special. But um, we would go to this church service, and I was I would cry every single time because there it was so beautiful the way he led them and the way they worshiped. Um and then, you know, fast forward a couple years, um, it was about two years ago, and he announced his retirement. And I was heartbroken. I was like, oh no. And not one church, not one person had said, you know, this should continue. And on average, there's probably 70 adults that come. Wow. Um, and this is their church. Like they don't go on Sundays. This this was it. And I was so heartbroken. I'm like, this is gonna end for them. Like, what, how God, why would you, you know, have this special night end for them? Um, and I was sitting at Woodridge one Sunday, and we had a pastor come who was um talking about, you know, reaching people who are unreachable in like tribes in Africa, um, people who haven't heard the gospel. And he put this verse up, and I have to read it because it like it hit me so hard. And it's the verse from Romans 10, 14 to 15. How then can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? How can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written, how beautiful are the feet of those who bring the good news. And there was two parts of that verse that, like, I don't know if you've had a aha God moment, but it was like my heart. Uh the verse about how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And I all I could think were these like 70 people are never gonna hear the gospel again. You know, they're gonna lose this. Um, but you know, God knows us and loves us so much, He knows that I would need like a really obvious thing that he was speaking to me. And it's so silly, but it's the verse about how beautiful are the feet of those who bring the good news. So I have been teased my whole life about having long toes and like ugly feet. And I was sitting there and I was like, Oh, are you serious right now? Yeah, it's just like, okay, God, he knew that I would need like I'm talking to you. Like, I don't need the feet, and you're gonna do this. Um Josie has really flat feet.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

The whole session on that because Hobbits Unite. Yeah, yeah. He calls my feet hobbit feet. They're not though, they're very narrow.

Mac 31:42

But it's fun to it's fun to poke at it.

SPEAKER_00 31:44

But my second toe is longer than my big toe. So Mac gets a real kick out of that.

Individual Needs Over Templates

SPEAKER_04 31:50

Yeah, me too. I can you pick things up with it too. I'm like, let me grab that. I got awesome. Yeah. So it's just those two things. God was like, I'm talking to you. And I approached Woodridge and I said, there's this beautiful service. Um, do you have a pastor who will lead it? And they said, No, we don't have, you know, anything like that, but you know, we'll hire you to do it. And I remember saying, like, no, because that's not, I hate public speaking. I was terrified. I don't have a background in ministry. And I kept, you know, using all these excuses of like why I couldn't do it. And I just remember like calling Pastor Don one day and being like, we're gonna do this. Like Woodridge is gonna support it, I'm gonna lead it somehow. Um, let's do this. And so I was able to intern under him for quite a few months. Um, you know, he uh 47 years of knowledge was I was like, tell me everything. And um, and it's nice because I still am in contact with him. So if I have questions or things come up, um and he actually comes every once in a while and does a lesson on Tuesday nights, so the individuals just love seeing him. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, but by bringing this Tuesday night to Woodridge, it made Woodridge look at our community as a whole and say, we don't have supports here for any special needs families or individuals. And so that was kind of, you know, I do the Tuesday night for adults, and then on Sundays and Wednesdays, we work on supporting kids and their families. And um, I'm just so so blessed to have um church leaders here that know this is a very special population, um, and it's a big need. Um, I have a beautiful sensory room downstairs, and it's just to be able to have that. Um, I I know a lot of churches don't, um, and to be supported in that way. So yeah, we we do a buddy program here at church. Um, some kids don't, you know, can't be in large group. Yeah. So they come in the sensory room the whole time. But I always want to challenge, you know, I it's not just coming in and playing, like we'll do a Bible lesson on the TV so that there's they're still learning, they're still hearing, you know, God's word. So um yeah, it's just been a blessing to see.

Mac 34:14

What kind of what kind of diversity do you have in terms of disability on Tuesday night and then in with the kids on uh Wednesdays and Sundays?

SPEAKER_04 34:24

Yeah, I mean, on Tuesday nights, um we have individuals who are nonverbal in wheelchairs that come um all the way up to very, very high functioning living in their own apartments. Um and and it's just neat because they're all there to worship and they all do it in their own unique way. If you just sat back and watched, you're like, they get it, they're hearing it. Um and on two on um Sundays and Wednesdays, uh, we have um more higher functioning kids. Um, we have some individuals who have Down syndrome, um, an autism. Uh yeah, so it's it it's a variety and it's very diverse. And um, yeah, you the one thing I've learned is to treat everyone as an individual. And they're the way you cannot put them in a box in a room and say you're gonna learn this way. It's getting to know them and their family and figuring out what is the best way to support them.

Mac 35:23

That feels like a really big takeaway. Um, that we can't like even take, for instance, Down syndrome, and we're part of that club. It would be a big mistake just to go, well, that person has Down syndrome, and here's all that that means. Um you have to take each person and their disability on its on its own, um, and then learn to relate to them in that way, which I think I would imagine, um, especially, I mean, I'm speaking in light of our own church, can create some challenges when providing support through a community because there's not just a template you can follow. Each individual with a disability has unique needs that then require a unique support.

Resources And Jesus’ Model Of Care

SPEAKER_04 36:02

Yeah. Yeah. And even, you know, just the special needs ministry as a whole, because it's not um super, you know, there's not a lot of churches doing it still today. There's no like handbook that you get to say, here's how you start a special needs ministry. You know, you kind of just um you you find the the few people who are out there speaking on it, or um, there's some amazing, amazing books um that I've been reading. And it's just, yeah, the main point is getting to know your community, who what are the needs of those in your community, and then how can we uh get them to church? How can they feel supported and loved and seen at church, whatever their ability or disability is? You know, how can we share the gospel with them um in a way that is unique to them? So um, there's a a really good book called The Accessible Church. I don't know if you've ever heard, oh my gosh. I have two books that I've they're all marked up and written on. It's called Jesus and the Disability Um and The Accessible Church. And there was a lot of the authors for both of those. Yeah. So the Accessible Church is Sandra Peoples.

Mac 37:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 37:14

Um, and she grew up with a sister who has Down syndrome in the church and tells about her experience. Um, and Jesus and the Disability is by Chris Halshoff. Um, and I loved this one because it dives really deep into the gospels and how Jesus was with people with disabilities the in his whole time through his work. Like that was, and we kind of miss that as a church. Like we're like, oh, you know, that person was paralyzed or that person had a mental illness, but it was like those are those are disabilities. He was immersed in this. Um, you know, right.

Mac 37:51

And then their stories are recorded for us to learn from, and those individuals seem to have been part of them, the early church, like they were important members in the community itself, which I think is significant.

SPEAKER_04 38:05

Exactly, exactly. Um, and this this quote in The Accessible Church by Sandra Peoples, um, she says, We may affirm that each person has the capacity for a relationship with God because we believe that God has the capacity to reach every human spirit. And I love that so much because it's going back to that. That's as an individual. We believe God can reach them. So how can we support God reaching them? Because we believe God can. So it just, yeah. I mean, there's there's all kinds of challenges, but it's it's just getting to know your community and the individuals that that need support.

From Pity To Empowerment In Church

SPEAKER_00 38:46

Yeah, I just love like the passion I hear in your voice is just awesome. It's contagious. It's contagious, but it's so exciting. I mean, as a mother of a child with special needs, it is so heartwarming to know that there are people out there like you that really have such passion and drive for it. It just like an answer to prayer to meet you and just see how like passionate you are about this topic and that you've really given your life to it. And I love that you have these two contexts too that you exercise this passion in. I would love to know um, you know, from the church side, from the group home side, are there things um in each setting that you kind of wish that the other one had, and vice versa? Like, are there strengths to each? And what do you wish the other one uh could, you know, kind of work on?

SPEAKER_04 39:43

Yeah. Well, I'm just so glad you were a part of the podcast today. This is just so awesome. Uh getting, yeah, the mother's perspective as well. Um there's there's a lot that I wish the church would know that residentials are kind of farther ahead on. Um the um residential um really looks at the individuals and what they could be capable of. Um they like these life goals that they set is like, no, you there's no reason you can't fold laundry. There's no, you know, it's it's these challenges that they do. Um, the um mission statement of Hammer is to provide people with intellectual and other disabilities the opportunity to live life to its fullest. And I love that, and I wish the church would adapt that too, and to provide opportunities for individuals with disabilities to come to church to be a part, be included and belong in a church. Um, and so I wish the church could see that, um, how capable individuals are. Um, you know, this national statistic is like I think 10% of churches have any sort of special needs. So that means there's 90% of churches that are totally missing a population of people. Um and one of the things I hear and I've heard from other individuals that I um kind of meet with is like, oh, well, I don't see anyone in our church with special needs. And that's such a red flag because it's like they can't, they can't get to church. You know, you're not saying like if you come, we'll support you. Because if you have a child um, you know, with autism, maybe they're a runner or you know, nonverbal, you you're not gonna show up at a church and hope for the best. You know, you're gonna be like, uh, are they gonna be supported? And so when they say, you know, we don't see it in our community um or in our church, it's like, well, they can't come. Yeah. Yeah, they're there.

Mac 41:43

There's two things you're saying that I want to make sure we highlight. One is maybe a difference in the residential setting is they've moved beyond pity to empowerment. They're genuinely seeing these individuals through the lens of potential. And so their presence isn't just one of providing care, it's one of coaching and development and wanting to see them advance and reach their full potential in life.

SPEAKER_03 42:10

Yeah.

Mac 42:11

Um, you know, we have Josie and I both have uh the Lucky Few tattoo, which is a tattoo for people with Down syndrome, and it's just like three arrows, but it sort of captures that dynamic because the idea is in order to shoot an air arrow, you have to bend the bow. And in order to launch someone with Down syndrome into the world to reach their full potential, you need to meet them. You have to bend down to meet them where they are so that they can soar, so that they can reach their full potential.

Inclusion Versus Belonging In Practice

SPEAKER_04 42:38

And they can. They can, they can. That's what is it's amazing to me is you know, I I love that you said from pity to empowerment, because they're a hundred percent capable and will surprise you with what they're capable of. And and I see it on Tuesday nights. If I'm asking or teaching a lesson, I'm asking a question about a Bible verse, they're like, what does this mean? The answers like blow me away every Tuesday. I'm like, Yes, you know that. Okay, like it just they're capable. That's right.

Mac 43:10

The other thing you said that strikes me as significant is how many churches don't have individuals with disabilities who are part of the community. And I think you're holding up a mirror to say, what might that tell us about the kind of community we have? In other words, uh, do we have the kind of kind of environment where they're welcomed, where they're embraced, where their support structures, if their kids, if are there support structures to help them participate and belong? I know as a parent with a son who has both Down syndrome and autism, he does a lot of weird things and can be pretty disruptive. And so I imagine for some parents, it's it's like am I gonna be um, I don't know, like the object of unwanted attention in this space, right? There's all sorts of variables to think through to go are we a community that allows people to come where They are offering support and even creating spaces where it doesn't have to. You know, we have uh in the church, there's so much emphasis on production and having a community and a church service that's awesome and performative. And that really works against having a community where people with disabilities are present because they might make weird noises during your preaching or whatever, right?

SPEAKER_04 44:25

Yep, yep. And that's the one thing that is I just love about the Tuesday night service is you come and you worship how you want to. Um, we used to have a lady who would bring a flag and she asked, can I flag to her? And I was like, absolutely, let's just be safe and you can you can do it over here, you know. Um, and I had a woman bring her son who's 17, um, non-verbal, but makes lots of noise. And he has a shaker that he loves to bring to church. And she was so apprehensive on about coming on a Tuesday. She's like, Well, you know, he'll make noise and he'll shake. And I was like, it's trust me, you come and it's okay. You don't even hear him. There's so many other things going on. And one of the things I love about it is they all love each other. So they're not saying, Hey, be quiet. I don't like that. Stop it. Like they don't hear or see each other in that way because I don't know if they just don't care because they're like, I'm having fun, or you know what it is, but they just it's so non-judgmental. Um, and it's yeah, it's very like worship how you want to worship. Um, and we we go through like expectations. So, you know, they're very respectful if it's prayer time and and the things, but um, yeah, they they come as they are.

Mac 45:48

For sure. But I think there's a vision moment if and again, I'm speaking on the inside of this experience where you're sitting in church and your son's making a lot of noise or doing unusual things. One of the things that I think the church can do for parents who are feeling that scrutiny, and even their kids, like our boys can feel embarrassed about Griffin because he's doing things that draw attention to our family. One of the things the church can do to help is to say we see that, and it's not a problem. That's not a problem. So if you're feeling embarrassed, don't be, because we welcome this.

SPEAKER_04 46:25

Yeah. And it's educating the congregation as a whole, too. You know, when when we first started this special needs ministry here, um, I spoke in front of the church a few times and just said, like, this is our community. These families are in our community, and and it's really cool. Um, we had just an awesome experience about the church kind of seeing people um and including them. This past weekend we did a fundraiser called Pucks at the Pastor, where we were raising money for a missions trip to Guatemala, and our lead pastor Zach was a hockey player.

Mac 46:59

So he was a goalie. He and I have swapped so many stories.

SPEAKER_04 47:02

Yeah. Oh, how awesome.

Mac 47:04

Yeah. In fact, we both played for Bethel.

Barriers, Excuses, And Making A Way

SPEAKER_04 47:06

So really. So you know. So he was out on our little pond, full goalie gear, and you would pay your age to donate, and you got to shoot pucks on him. Um, and on Tuesday night, I had um talked to this one woman who comes um and she lives in her own apartment, um, very high functioning. And she was like, What is this pucks at the pastor? And I said, Well, this it's a fundraiser on Saturday. And she goes, I want to come. And I was like, Okay, well, you know, I'll get the information to your staff. If you can make it great, you know, it's okay if you can't. Um, but she plays hockey as well. And so she was pumped. Well, she showed up on Saturday. She taught her staff gave her a ride, brought her, and I didn't know that. I was inside, um, and she was out on the pond with chatting with people, um, shooting pucks, and she came in and I was like, Oh my gosh, I didn't know you're here. I go, Have you been outside the whole time? She goes, Yeah, and it's really fun. And so I talked to the people outside and they're like, She was having a blast. And so to know that the church sees people and and is like, oh, you know, they didn't say, What are you doing here? or you need to go inside. You they just welcomed her and she had a blast. Everyone out there had a ton of fun. Um, and like she brought her own hockey stick, and she like it was it was so cool.

Mac 48:26

I love that, and I'm slightly nervous that you're giving our congregation an idea for a fundraiser. And you know, Zach is younger than me, so he I have lost my flexibility. Um, I'm at that stage where you can pull a hamstring while putting on your socks.

SPEAKER_04 48:43

So yes, yeah. Oh, yeah. It was it was funny. I'm I'm sure he is he's sore because you know, people didn't didn't go light on him.

Mac 48:50

I love that.

SPEAKER_04 48:51

So it was it was awesome. But to know she came was yeah.

Mac 48:55

That's fantastic. So one of the through lines in this podcast series we're doing is um moving from include beyond inclusion to genuine spaces of belonging. And I'm wondering um from your vantage point, um, how do you see the difference? Do you notice the difference between those two? How would you fill that out? How would you speak into that transition?

Hope, Mission, And Unreached Neighbors

SPEAKER_04 49:21

Yeah. And you know, when I first heard inclusion versus belonging, I thought of um, you know, if you're including someone, you see them and you're like, okay, you can come along, like come sit with us, you know, you you'll just be here. And when someone has a sense of belonging, they feel wanted, they want to be included. You want them to come sit by you and be a part of the group. Um, there's a pride that comes with belonging. Like, this is my church. I belong, I'm involved in things. Um, and it it's really cool because we have another story of a fifth grade boy, um, and he's autistic, but he's also the three three E, the three exceptional. So he's very, very smart. Like this kid is just amazing, um, and doesn't fit in with his peers. Um, and we did vacation Bible school last year, and he wanted to come. And on the first day, you know, he was with his group and it was he did not like it, he hated it. Um, kind of hung out with me most of the time. And so I talked to his mom. I was like, how can we, how can he wants to be here, but what can we do so that he can be here? And um Dan was volunteering as like a kind of a float guy, um, going from group to group. And I said, you know, would you like to hang out with Dan and be kind of on this safety team? And he loved it. So we gave him like I would hang out with Dan and we'll have a sign up for that next year. Yeah, yeah. But it was so cool, you know, because Dan is married to me and has had all these experiences, he's very comfortable jumping in at any point. Um, and so we made like a checklist. He had a clipboard every morning. He's you know, signed in at 9 a.m. They would check all the doors, they would check the grounds, they made sure kids were where they're, you know, where they were supposed to be. And he just loved it. He felt so included. And so that to me is like he belonged at VBS. He had a purpose, he had this goal. Um, he's excited to do it again. And it was just an awesome way to see, like, even other volunteers were like, oh, you know, here comes Dan and and the child, you know, we we need this, or can you guys go get us this? And so they saw him as able and just participating. Um, so it was really cool to see that that he felt pride in it. And he loves coming to church now and and being kind of included in different, not with his age group, but we find different things for him that he's capable of doing.

Mac 51:53

Yes, I like I love the way you're narrating it from the perspective of someone who has a disability. You notice how they experience belonging, which is like, this is my community, I'm comfortable here, and so on. I wonder too, if you could speak to um what about those without disabilities? Uh, what might what might shift for them from inclusion to belonging? What do you notice there?

SPEAKER_04 52:22

Yeah, and I it goes kind of back to the you know, lady who came to the pond hockey where as a community, a church community, if you start to see these people and and really kind of form relationships with them, um, whether it's through volunteering or just conversations, if you see them, you know, during fellowship time, um you really it's hard to put into words, you get to know them as a person. And then you're like, oh, they are capable. And how how can we support people, other people with disabilities and include them in what greeting? You know, could I could they be a greeter? Could they help with the cafe? Like I think it's just it's starting to see people the way God sees them, and being like, oh, this is an image bearer. Cool, they are capable, let's get them involved. Um, and I speaking from someone who has had years of relationships, there's just something you they bless you. And it's very hard to describe, but they are they just bless you. You know, you think you're helping them, and oh, this is great, but like totally the other way around.

Mac 53:29

Well, and you said a word several times there, which I I want to highlight is the word relationship. I think that that is like a really key ingredient from shifting to mere inclusion to deep belonging, is there's a genuine relationship there. And for the individual with a disability, when there's a real relationship, they feel safe, they feel comfortable, they feel like they belong. But for those without a disability, when there's a genuine relationship, all of a sudden there's this reciprocity that takes over. It's not just pity, it's not just me investing, it's it's I know you and delight in you, and I'm receiving something also in return just by knowing you.

SPEAKER_03 54:09

Yeah.

Mac 54:10

Um, and and I think what part of what makes me sad is given how low the percentage is of churches who have individuals with disabilities, which I think also indicates most people maybe don't have a deep relationship with someone who has a disability. Yeah, they're just missing out on a joy that I don't think can be uh found in a typical relationship.

Practical Practices: Pray, Notice, Act

SPEAKER_04 54:34

Yeah. Yes, and that yeah, it's hard to it is hard to explain that because they are so filled with joy and they face challenges daily that you know we don't, but they do it with joy, and even some of the individuals that I have worked with that had the like hardest challenging behaviors, they hold the biggest place in my heart because I was like, we worked through some hard stuff together. Like you were really mad that day, and we we got through it, but then yeah, they just there's a love and a joy that that they have that people are totally missing out on. And I think you know, I I don't like towards the use use the word fear, but they're the fear of the unknown. You know, people are always like, Oh, I don't know, what are they gonna behave like? And yeah, we just have to somehow get rid of that because yeah, you named fear as one of the barriers.

SPEAKER_00 55:26

What do you think are some other barriers for people in kind of making this jump between inclusion versus belonging?

SPEAKER_04 55:35

Yeah, there's um in the accessible church, the author Sandra highlights um one of the stories from um, and I wrote it down because it's just it's an awesome, awesome example of not like I don't know, like our church's excuses that we do, and it's in Mark II about um, you know, there's a paralyzed man and his friends bring him to Jesus. And she kind of breaks down like, okay, as a church, what why are you saying no to this? And um, one of them was uh we don't have time. And she uses the example of like those friends didn't know how long Jesus was gonna be in town, they just knew their friend needed to get there. So there's no excuses. They they didn't use time, they were like, nope, we're we're gonna do this. This we're doing it now. Um she said, you know, sometimes churches will be like there's no volunteers to do this type of ministry. And she's like, Well, this man only had four friends and crowds of people, and they still saw him as a priority and wanted him to get to Jesus. And her other excuse is like, Oh, there's no space, we don't have the room for it. And she's like, There was literal blockades of people, there was no door, and so they made a way instead of saying, Oh, look at all these things we can't do, they said, No, we're gonna do it. Somehow we're gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01 56:53

We're gonna dig a hole in the roof if that's what it requires.

SPEAKER_04 56:56

Yeah, yes, and we're gonna lower this man down. Like, if you think about all the things they did, but they wanted their friend to get to Jesus. When I think about special needs people, like they need access, and we keep putting up like either we think they can't or we can't. But in my experience, and it's only been two years, so this is like super new and it's ever changing. Like, God will provide. And so, if you as a church, when you pray about it and you think, okay, what are our challenges? Where where can't do we think we can't do this? Um, he'll provide these uh these sheep are very, very special to him. And um, yeah, I've seen him provide in crazy ways.

SPEAKER_00 57:39

Yes, yeah, and that kind of segues too into this question. It sounds like um, you know, you've had quite the experience in the context you're in. And it sounds like just taking the next right step. God has provided for you, he's given you opportunities, he's created this space for these individuals. And what do you see, like from where you sit? What gives you hope about the future of disability and belonging in the church?

Contact, Joy, And Closing

SPEAKER_04 58:09

Yeah, I mean, I just love that it's conversations that are being had. Um, there are some amazing resources online too. Um, there's a um a website called Abilities Ministries, and um, it's run by a guy named Ryan Wolf, and he will actually do like a consultation with you where he looks at like he looked at Medina and Orno and our surrounding areas and the population of people living with disabilities versus our church. And he so he really breaks it down and helps you see like you have a lot of unreached families. Um, and and there's you know conferences that are starting to be had, and people are just opening their eyes really and seeing like, oh my gosh, we are missing, like I said, this whole flock of sheep that we have just discarded and been like they can't, which then is a ripple effect because if they can't, their families can't. And and it's just like this snowball that happens, and as the church, um, you know, the Jesus said, Come to me, all who are weary. And one of the things that I have learned over the past 18 years is um, these families need the church, they need support. We are supposed to be the ones that take them in when they're tired and need a break, and and the world is really heavy in a different way for them. Um, and so for churches to start seeing those families and individuals too, like the adults that come. Um, yeah, I'm just excited that it's conversations being had. People are seeing, um, you know, podcasts are being done, and it's just it's a really cool, I have a lot of hope. Um, yeah.

Mac 59:52

Yeah, one of the things that strikes me about your your story, everything you've contributed to this conversation is you have this unique blend of a sort of a pastor or shepherd's heart towards this community, but in addition to that, a missionary one. Um I have a dear friend, uh Barb Dietrich, who's part of our community, and she uh has had a kid with a disability, and she tells me this all the time based on the statistics, this is one of the largest unreached people groups in the United States.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:26

Yep.

Mac 1:00:26

And I want our church to hear that, that because to the degree we can't create in an environment where we're genuinely pushing outside of our comfort zones and creating a welcoming, inclusive space for belonging, this is a group of people that isn't hearing. They don't have feet like yours that uh are weird bringing them the good news, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:47

Exactly. They don't, they don't, and I think it's just when you stop and think about it, it's almost like mind-boggling that the church we haven't seen them. And you're like, wait, and you know, we read these books and that Jesus sat with all these people, but we missed that part of his gospel. We missed the part that, you know, I'm sure some of those people he sat with made noises and did strange things and you know, had physical ailments and disabilities visually that were like, oh, you know, we don't want that person at our table. But Jesus went to them and on purpose. Like, on purpose, he was like, Nope, those are the people I'm gonna go sit with. And yeah, know that the church has missed that.

Mac 1:01:31

There's even that story of uh blind Bartimaeus who's like crying out, and the disciples sort of try to sh silence him because he's being loud and obnoxious. And yes, exactly. What does Jesus do? He like basically rebukes his disciples by giving this guy his full attention and then providing healing.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:50

Yeah, and and we've we just kind of missed that part of the God.

Mac 1:01:54

That's right. This is called uh the Praxis Podcast. And of course, orthodoxy is like right belief, orthopraxy is right practice. So we end uh every every episode with some practices to give our listeners like, don't just listen to this. Now go practice something, do something right away. And this is totally off the cuff. Oftentimes when we're recording podcasts, we kind of think through practices together that we're gonna, but we're just gonna make it up as we go. And so I want to give you, Emily, the first the opportunity to name a practice for our listeners.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:32

Yeah, so I really I I thought about this because I thought about looking back at my situation when you know we were like, we we're gonna do this, you know, how, how, and what, what do you mean we're gonna do a special needs ministry? And my first, like in, you know, what I wanted listeners to know is pray. Like the first thing is just pray about it. Um, God will t lead you, He'll bring people to you. Um I I really think praying about seeing this population of people and their families um is is the first thing. And I I really also we have to remember the gospel's for everyone. You know, Jesus didn't just say, if you can make it into the church, if you can make it into the temple. Um, and you know, the Bible verse about man sees the outside, but God sees the heart. We can't be so wrapped up in, okay, I'm praying about it. Now, how do I how do I make sure these people are knowing the gospel and hearing the gospel? And it's not our job. God will God will work within them. Um everyone being made in God's image has a purpose. You know, there was no no one is made by mistake. And so when you start to pray, you think, how can we do this? Um really get to know your community. Like we said before, just because you don't see them at your church doesn't mean they're not there. Yeah. Um reach out to the schools, you can get all the information of how many people are living with disabilities. Um, really get to know your outside community before you know bringing it into the church. Um, yeah, and again, just that there's no there's no excuses. I think if if you uh say we don't have the time, space, anything, well, God will make the time and the space and the people. Like he will provide. And so really just um, yeah, there's there's lots of resources. Like I said, the abilities ministry, um, there's amazing books. So just pray and and get to know the community. Yeah, and see where God leads you.

Mac 1:04:27

That's a great first practice. There's tons of ways to press into this conversation through education and active involvement, and you're naming a very important first step, which is to pray and discern where God's asking you to start, right? Um, Josie, what would you name as a second practice?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:44

Yeah, I I like that statistic, Mac, that you said at the beginning that 17 to 20% of the population lives with a disability. So, you know, that means that in the places that we frequent, whether it is, you know, at your son's basketball game or work or church, like these people exist in the context that you are already in. So I think a great practice would just be to notice that this week. Like, who do you notice in the grocery store? Who do you notice um at school, at work, and just kind of take an inventory of who God is placing in your life already?

Mac 1:05:21

Yeah. So, Emily, you named several times, and I hear Josie picking up on that, that Jesus saw people. He saw things that otherwise uh some people missed. And maybe to complement this practice of seeing those who maybe have disabilities in your everyday life, go through the Gospels as you named Emily, and just read the Gospels through the lens of disability and notice how many stories there are and how Jesus started by seeing those individual individuals, and then it led to some sort of embodied presence. And I'll just tell you the book of Acts is also full of it because the disciples learned from Jesus. How to do that.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:01

Yes.

Mac 1:06:02

So um maybe a final practice. I can be a little bit punchy. So yes. I I'll just name it get over yourself. Because we do live in a very performance-driven culture where it's all about looking like we have it together. Everything is put together and nice. And one of the barriers, you named it as fear. I think another barrier is just like if I'm proximate to this person who's unusual, who's doing or like what how do I caught up in that?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:32

Yeah.

Mac 1:06:33

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04 1:06:34

Yeah.

Mac 1:06:35

And I just think, yeah, you've there is a get outside your comfort zone to meet new people. And part of that is like not taking yourself so seriously.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:44

Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Mac 1:06:45

One of the things I most admire about my son Griffin, and it's probably not a chosen thing on his part, but he literally just has no social awareness about embarrassment.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:55

Right.

Mac 1:06:55

And I just think, man, I wish more people had that. Like the other day he was sitting on the couch and his pants started to sag down. You could see like half of his butt crack. He didn't know, didn't care. And I'm just like, not that everybody could walk around like that, but there's something to be said about like, why do we take ourselves so seriously? Like just get over having to have it all together so that you can create spaces for people who don't have it all together.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:21

Exactly. And I think that was in in conversations, you you start to look at you know the way your church does a service, and things have to fit in a certain box. You know, you you sit up, you stand down, you are quiet. Like you said, if someone's making noise, that is not okay. Like you are disrupting. But in reality, it's like, well, who says we have to worship like that? Like who says it has to be this way on Tuesday nights? It's it's you are so immersed in just the joy that's there that you don't notice the person spinning or the person humming because the the room is just so filled with joy. And like you said, they don't care. Nobody cares. You're free, you're just you're there, you're experiencing the Holy Spirit. And yeah, it's letting go of like this this box that we think even church has to be in because it doesn't.

Mac 1:08:15

Emily, you are such a delight, and I so appreciate you joining us. What um if people wanted to connect with you either on this topic or how do I feed my chickens the right kind of meat?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:26

Like how would they get in touch with you? Yeah, so um, yeah, my email is on the Woodridge website. It's emily.robleart at Woodridge.com. Um, I love to talk to people about this. I love encouraging people to just start, see their community. Um, you know, for 18 plus years these people have been a part of my life, and it has done nothing but bless me and and encourage me when I'm like one of my favorite things is on Tuesday night, if I make a mistake in a lesson or I drop paper, like they're cheering for me. Like, it's okay, you got this. And I'm like, on a Sunday that would never happen. You'd get this gas and like, oh, but they just bring so much joy, and I think the church could could use that and and run with it because yeah, um, but I also have there's a King's Community Facebook page that we we update when we're doing events, and um yeah, so just I would love to chat with people if they want to know more.

Mac 1:09:27

I love it. Well, know this. We're praying, we're really we're praying for Minnesota. We know there's a lot going on there. We haven't talked about that today, but both Josie and I, Josie grew up in Golden Valley, I grew up in E Dina. So we've been feeling a little homesick just knowing, man, there's a lot happening there, and we wanna we we love you guys and thank you, want to be supportive. Um, yeah. Well, let me close it.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:48

And it's interesting, like um the individuals like on Tuesday nights, we do a prayer time so they can come up and pray for whatever they want. Um, we've had people pray for Elvis Presley and all the way up to like the political climate right now, and so to see that through their eyes, um, you know, on Tuesday we had someone just pray Minneapolis is really sad right now. Yeah, and we need to pray for them because they're sad. And I was like, that is that is it. Like you see it for what it is, and we are gonna pray because it's sad. So it's really neat, yeah, you know, to even see how they view the world differently than we do. Yeah, I love that.

Mac 1:10:25

Well, thanks, thanks for joining us today. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. Next time, we're gonna have a conversation with a newer friend of mine, Nilda Rivera. And Nilda is in full-time ministry to those who are disabled, and she has a disability. Um, so she brings a lot to the table. I'm stoked to connect with connect with her and learn from her. So stay tuned, and we'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:51

Praxis is recorded and produced at CrossPoint Community Church. You can find out more about the show and our church at crosspoint WI.com. If you have any questions, comments, or have any suggestions for future topics, feel free to send us an email. Also, if you enjoyed the show, consider leaving a review. And if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.