Praxis
Praxis
Kingdom Aikido: Jesus' Way Toward Loving Enemies
What does it truly mean to love your enemies in the way of Jesus? This question isn't just theological theory—it's a practical challenge we face whenever someone wrongs or mistreats us. In this powerful conclusion to our forgiveness series, we explore what might be Jesus's most radical teaching: not just breaking free from cycles of enemy-making, but actively loving those who harm us.
Most people naturally default to either fight (retaliation) or flight (passive submission) when wronged. Jesus offers a stunning third way—what we're calling "Kingdom Aikido"—that refuses to mirror evil while still actively resisting it. By examining Jesus's teaching in Matthew 5:38-48 through its historical context, we discover that "turn the other cheek" wasn't advocating doormat Christianity, but a creative nonviolent resistance that exposes injustice while preserving human dignity.
Through compelling examples and personal stories, we unpack four essential components of this approach: refusing to respond in kind, reclaiming your agency, holding up a mirror to injustice, and inviting the wrongdoer to repent. This isn't just about theoretical ethics—it's about practical wisdom for transforming conflicts in our families, workplaces, and communities. What might change if we approached challenging relationships not with passive resignation or aggressive hostility, but with the creative, dignity-affirming resistance Jesus modeled?
Loving enemies isn't easy, but it's at the heart of the gospel. After all, "we love God only as much as we love our worst enemy." Join us as we explore what it means to follow Jesus in the radical art of turning enemies into friends.
Welcome to Praxis, a podcast where we explore how to practice and embody the way of Jesus in our everyday lives. Thanks so much for taking the time to listen. Over the past few months, we've been in a series on forgiveness and we've covered a lot of ground. So far, we've unpacked the cycle of enemy-making how to name and lament the impact of wrongdoing, how to forgive the person who did the wrongdoing, how to forgive the person who did the wrongdoing and what it looks like to be appropriately open to reconciliation. We attempted to do all of this in light of the life and teachings of Jesus.
Speaker 1:Before we close out this series, there's one more topic that is closely related to forgiveness, reconciliation and peacemaking. It's at the heart of the kingdom of God and Jesus's teachings, and it's this it's enemy love. How do we not only break out of the cycle of enemy making, but actually love our enemies in the way of Jesus, and what does it look like to relate to those who are wronging us or mistreating us? So today we want to close out this series by exploring what we call kingdom Aikido. Let's get into it.
Speaker 2:Welcome everyone. My name is Katie.
Speaker 3:I'm Mac. I'm Josiah.
Speaker 2:Okay so, Mac you, one week ago you were on a plane back from Iceland, and before that you were in Ireland, so I was hoping that maybe you could just tell us like one or two really cool things that you saw or experienced on your vacation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, they were two very different trips. Ireland was to celebrate my parents' 50th wedding anniversary and so we were with my parents, and then I have three sisters, so it was all of us adult children plus spouses, so 10 of us total and I mean it was posh. My parents spared no expense. It was a huge celebration for them and I think they were really honored by that and we had just a great time as a family and it was fun. I felt like we got to really experience the culture that is Ireland. But I would say maybe one of my most favorite memories that week was at the Cliffs of Moher. My dad has some limited mobility from a brain tumor from like 15 years ago, so there's like lots of places you could walk, but he kind of just positioned himself at like this one place and I ended up just kind of standing with him for probably about I don't know half an hour 40 minutes and it was fun because I don't feel any anxiety to fill the space with my dad around like always someone's talking. So we just kind of stood there and it ended up being a beautiful day, sun shining, and we just kind of like took it in and then every once in a while one of us would say something and then we just kind of go back to being together in this special spot. It was just fun. It's one of my highlights.
Speaker 1:Oh, man, from from Iceland. It's hard to pick like just one, but we did some pretty cool excursions. Maybe one of the most interesting ones is there's two tectonic plates that are sort of separating in Iceland and we did some cold water snorkeling between those plates. Yeah, so you put on, they give you a thermal like undersuit and we did some cold water snorkeling between those plates. Whoa, yeah, so you put on, they give you a thermal like undersuit and then a dry suit over it, because it's like 33-degree water, oof, but there's like a strong sort of like I don't know cuff on your hands and around your neck so there's no water that's going to get in, and so just your face is freezing and kind of your fingers. But my goodness, like you get into this water and you're just like looking down into the abyss and it is so cool, was it creepy?
Speaker 3:at all.
Speaker 1:No, I didn't feel creeped out or scared. In fact, they kind of like pumped it up like, hey, this is going to be so uncomfortable, you're going to be freezing, push through the pain. It's worth it to see these things. And maybe it was just because we both cold plunge or something, but we got in and we're like what?
Speaker 2:This isn't bad. You were snorkeling, so you were towards the top of the water.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're just hovering on the top. In fact, the dry suit was so buoyant there's no way you could even dive under the water. You're just kind of floating there, you know.
Speaker 2:How cool.
Speaker 1:But it was. It was really neat, it was a fun experience. So sounds really fun. A couple of highlights. Thanks for asking.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 3:Kind of crabby to be back, but yeah, I use the that measurement for if I'm close enough to someone as a friend.
Speaker 2:Buoyancy yeah like what?
Speaker 1:Where are we going next? Yeah?
Speaker 2:yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure what the reference is. This is great.
Speaker 3:Being able to sit in their presence without having to fill it with talking. Yes, I can talk as much as anybody, but I do enjoy the feeling of security when you're just with someone and you don't have to say anything at all. I actually find it very peaceful.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Even if you're just riding in a car and you're with a friend or someone or your spouse or just someone, and you're just there, you don't have to say anything.
Speaker 1:Well, and not to make the turn right now necessarily, but like some of the greatest spiritual writers throughout the centuries have named the intimacy that is there with God, like, oftentimes, we feel anxiety if we're not hearing God's voice and so we just fill it with talking and talking and words and words. But what if God wants the same kind of intimacy as if you're driving with your spouse on a road trip and you're just sitting there or you're at the Cliffs of Moher? Maybe it's not always supposed to be incessant sound, but it's about being together in a way that words can't capture. That's cool. You want to hear the most annoying sound on the planet?
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:I'm just kidding. That's a dumb and dumber reference. Oh okay, come on.
Speaker 2:It's been a long time since I've sat down and watched them and number Uh, well, speaking of annoying sounds buoyancy and buoyancy.
Speaker 1:Uh, today we're going to wrap up this series on forgiveness and reconciliation. Honestly, we probably could have ended it after our last episode, but there's one final topic that I think is it just absolutely needs to be touched on, because it builds on what we've been talking about so far, and it's how do we love our enemies? Right, we've talked about how to get out of the enemy making cycle, but how do you actually go beyond just getting out of it and actually proactively turn the corner and begin loving your enemies in the way of Jesus? Because, quite frankly, you guys, this is at the center of Jesus' teachings and the gospel Like. This is how God relates to us. This is how God relates to us.
Speaker 1:Scripture says that what motivated God to forgive us and reconcile us to himself was enemy love. While we were still enemies, god, out of love, sent Jesus to die for us so that we could be reconciled to him. Right, and so God is a God of enemy love, and Jesus challenges us to love our enemies in the same way. This is what Jesus is getting at when he says be perfect just as your heavenly father is perfect. The whole context is that God loves indiscriminately. He loves and sends his reign to fall on the righteous and the unrighteous. And he's saying love the same way, just as God loves indiscriminately, you're to love all those that you encounter, not just your friends, not just those who are kind to you, but even those who mistreat you and harm you, your enemies.
Speaker 1:I don't know who this quote should be attributed to. Some say St John of the Cross, other people say Dorothy Day, but it's just this. I love God only as much as I love my worst enemy. I love God only as much as I love my worst enemy. At the very least, that's provocative. Right Sky Jatani says the mark of true devotion to God isn't who we reject, but rather who we embrace. It's not who we condemn to hell, but who we are committed to heal. And real faith in Christ isn't defined by an unquestioning commitment to a position, but by unlimited compassion towards all people, even to our enemies. I mean, this is what David French critiques when he talks about telephone pole Christianity. A telephone pole is just vertical right, and so it's just focusing on your relationship with God rather than the significance of the cross, which is not just a vertical pole, but like extends horizontally.
Speaker 2:Interesting.
Speaker 1:So again, the question is how do we not only break out of the cycle of enemy making but actually love our enemies in the way of Jesus? And what does it look like, jesus? And what does it look like and I'm sure all of us can think of people who, in our relationship with them, there's maybe a patterned way of wrongdoing or mistreatment and you have to continue to be in their presence. So what does it look like to love those people? You guys kind of with me?
Speaker 3:on this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay. Are you just nodding just because you want to? Not, if not, if you're following, blink twice if you were with you you know like this is. This gets me jazzed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm excited for this conversation because I think that loving your enemies is something that's easy to talk about but way harder to actually do, like we all know the verses. We can all talk about it in in theory, but when you're faced with a situation where you're actually required to extend self-sacrificial love not required, but you have an opportunity to it's it's hard, it's hard stuff.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, it's uh.
Speaker 3:When we have the picture of love being just this, feeling like I feel like I love my enemies, it gets really ethereal and wishy-washy, and I feel like we need, like, a specific way of acting in order to know that we're loving our enemies, and we need more options than the ones we're given like inherently, as humans Say more about that.
Speaker 3:So when you're faced with a threat, you have a physiological response in your body, and we commonly use these terms fight or flight, right. So you're either going to fight back adrenaline's going to rush or you're going to run away in fear, and if we use those two as the primary mode of operating for most people, when someone has harmed you or someone is wronging you or someone is a genuine threat to you, you can feel like you want to love them, but ultimately, we are going to be co-opted by our biological responses to try to protect ourselves, and those are not wrong. We're not going to label those as any things sort of wrong. We are naming, though, that, in order to love in the way of Jesus, we need a third way. We need a, we need an alternate way of operating that goes beyond our, our um physiological biological response.
Speaker 3:Yes, that goes beyond the sort of the reptilian brain that that is wanting to fire in those moments and to say, no, I'm, I can choose to do something else. Uh, as an act of love.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think most people, when they're encountered with a threat, or let's just say they're encountered with an enemy, someone who's mistreating them, and that natural physiological fight or flight response comes, it really comes down to whether I can win or not. If I can overpower my enemy, if I can win, I'm more likely to choose the fight response. Right, I can get them to submit to my power, but if I look at the other person I'm like totally outmatched to my power. But if I look at the other person I'm like totally outmatched. You know, then I'm more likely to run away or to cower in submission.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I just think that there is a, there has to be an option, and I don't think that we have. We're not often given the tools to do that as Jesus followers. You know, like even in I guess I would say even in outside of the realm of, like, church and Christianity yes, we don't have a lot of options, right, or like you're, either like, as you're saying, I'm either like can win this fight and I'm going to fight, or I'm going to run away, and I'm really excited to hear more about what it looks like to embody something else, like just an alternate.
Speaker 1:I think you've got your finger on it, because I feel that way. I think there's what I call imaginative gridlock, where, when we're encountering an enemy, we don't have an imagination for something outside of a fight or flight, like overpower or submit and cower, and so we either battle against this person or we bail out because we're overwhelmed right, or we push back or we pull away and we need a different way altogether. We're saying we need a third way, a different way than fight or flight.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And might I take what you were saying just a step further and say and if we're talking in the church context, I'm guessing nine times out of 10, we're going to think, oh well, jesus is the flight response, like he just sort of takes it right. That seems to be sometimes how we orient, maybe if we don't even realize that. But you know, since I started working here a couple years ago, mac, you've recommended, I think, some books and resources and teachings that have helped me start to think this way and understand.
Speaker 2:And it's true, when you look at the life and teachings of Jesus, you see that he doesn't resort to this fight or flight dichotomy, but rather he consistently embodies and teaches us something different. If you look at the stories of Jesus in the Bible, you see that when he encounters tension, he doesn't run away or passively appease people, which is kind of that flight response you're talking about. But he also doesn't pick up arms to fight. Rather, jesus resists in a nonviolent way that paves the way for peace and righteousness and justice. So today we want to unpack perhaps one of Jesus's most challenging teachings, which is this that of enemy love. Rather than running away from our enemies or hitting our enemies. Jesus teaches us to love our enemies Enemy. Love really is the center of the kingdom, and I think it's a hallmark of what it means to follow Jesus.
Speaker 1:And one of the labels that might be helpful if we go fight is one label for a non-Jesus-like response, and flight is the other. The third way is non-violent resistance. So, in other words, you just said maybe there's a common association, that Jesus is just in his teachings, promoting a passivity in the face of evil or wrongdoing. And one thing I want to make clear and I'll circle back to this in a bit that is not at all supported by Jesus's life or teachings there is a resistance, but it's not a fight type of resistance. It's a nonviolent, cruciform form of resistance that actually wields more power than picking up arms, because it's the type of power and resistance that can transform. So, yeah, I think this is going to be a little bit of a different podcast than some of our other ones, where we just kind of have an ongoing dialogue. Let's make it as conversational as possible. But I actually just want to walk through a passage that I feel like I've done a fair amount of work on and just kind of talk about it as it provokes things. So it's Matthew 5, 38 through 48. So, in context, this is part of the Sermon on the Mount, which is sort of the longest or largest collection of Jesus's teachings put into one place, and so it's three chapters of the Sermon on the Mount Matthew 5, 6, and 7. And so this is from the first sort of chunk of it, and it's part of a section known as the six antitheses. So these are six blocks of teachings where Jesus begins by saying you've heard it said. But I say to you, and with each of these teachings, jesus is not setting aside the law, but rather he's intensifying and internalizing the law. In fact the word but it could be better translated. And I say to you that Jesus is not contradicting the law. Rather, this was common rabbinic way of offering an interpretation of the law. So when he says, hey, you've heard it said, but I say to you he's not contradicting to it. That was just a rabbi's way of saying I'm about to interpret what this law means for you. And the through line with each one of these antitheses is that he's intensifying and internalizing the true intent of the law. Does that make sense? So this is one of those six.
Speaker 1:Here's what Jesus says. You have heard that. It was said eye for eye and tooth for tooth. Jesus is quoting the law there. But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also, and if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. So, katie, you were kind of alluding to this, but I'm thoroughly convinced that this is one of the least understood of all of Jesus's teachings, because most people translate verse 39, do not resist an evil person. Many just interpret that as Jesus teaching passivity. They think that Jesus is saying that hey, when someone wrongs you, don't do anything. You're to do nothing and if anything, endure it and invite more of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, yeah. This is the verse that was coming to my mind when I said I think we associate Jesus with passivity.
Speaker 3:Right, Well, on the opposite end of the spectrum, I once heard a preacher preach no joke that turning the other cheek was the act of turning your body away so that you could hit them back.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness. Well, okay, so that's actually a fun. Okay, because when people take this passivity interpretation, I've noticed that they tend to do one of two things with it. So they assume, hey, jesus must be teaching passivity here, and it leads. Do one of two things with it. So they assume, hey, jesus must be teaching passivity here, and it leads to one of two applications. The first one is they either remain passive in the face of evil because they think that's being faithful to what Jesus is saying. Right, jesus is teaching passivity here. So when I encounter evil, I'm going to remain passive and that way I know I'm being faithful.
Speaker 1:The problem with this and we'll get into it more is number one that's not what Jesus is saying. And number two when you look at the life of Jesus, you notice neutrality and passivity in the face of evil simply allows evil to reign. And Jesus came to defeat the evil one and the effects of evil in the world. Right, okay, defeat the evil one and the effects of evil in the world Right, okay. But then there's this other group where they think that Jesus is teaching passivity and they just pick up arms and fight you know what I mean? Because they don't think Jesus is being pragmatic or practical. So at least with the first group it's like hey, you're trying to be faithful to Jesus.
Speaker 1:The second group is just like yeah, that's not realistic, so we're just going to set it aside. You know what I mean. It's good for Jesus.
Speaker 3:It isn't good for us, right, it's different.
Speaker 1:And I want to say no, that's also no bueno, because whatever is Jesus is doing in this passage and we're going to get to it he's not making retaliation possible.
Speaker 1:He's not making retaliation possible as a kingdom response. He's removing that as a possibility, and the reason why is because retaliation just keeps the cycle of violence going round and round. I mean, I don't know how else you make sense of the history of the world, except for to look at the fact that we've tried this and we keep trying to again, again. We think that violence is going to bring peace or end violence, but in fact it just continues to perpetuate it. And, man, I just say I think that we place way too much trust and confidence in violence to do work that it can't do, especially as Americans. But, man, I'll just tell you, speaking of my trip to Ireland, one of the things that you become aware of in Ireland is that the Irish people for a long time were oppressed by the British. There is a long history of mistreatment there and violence between those two entities or two countries. But we went by the house that used to belong to Dolores O'Riordan, who happened to be the lead singer for one of the most famous Irish bands, the Cranberries.
Speaker 2:I've seen her in concert.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, cool. Well, in any case, one of the things I've always loved doing when you're visiting a place is to like listen to their music. So I was like, oh, I should listen to some Cranberries Like who doesn't love the cranberries? And at one point I'm listening to the song Zombie you know the song Zombie and I'm like, holy smokes, this is a protest song. And so I pull up the lyrics and I'm like, yeah, sure enough, she is protesting violence.
Speaker 3:I didn't know that. Yeah, I guess I've never really paid attention.
Speaker 1:It was written in a response to an act of violence that took place in the early 1990s, where two children were killed in England by an Irish bomb, and she was so upset by this that she wrote the song zombie and zombie. The title zombie refers to those who perpetuate violence. They're dead inside, they're numb and unable to see the humanity of others. The perpetrators of violence are like zombies, is what she's saying. They're mindless, emotionless and trapped in repetition. And just listen to the song Like she repeats the phrase in your head they are fighting, making the point of how, like old wounds and hatreds and ideologies are driving present action that isn't working but only causing harm.
Speaker 1:At one point she says the same old theme since 1916. I'm like, oh well, what's that? So I looked it up and it's referring to this thing called Easter Rising, which was a bloody rebellion that took place against British rule. And so she's saying, look, the same cycle of violence that started then way back in 916, we're just repeating it. We're just like zombies, you know, mindless, emotionless, trapped in repetition. So anyway, I just think people who have access are closer to the non-redemptive cycle of violence, have greater clarity and conviction that it actually doesn't work. I mean, take for instance U2. Bono, right, this is the theme I thought you were saying.
Speaker 3:U2, like referring to Katie and I.
Speaker 1:No, I'm on the Irish band bandwagon, like U2, their song Bloody Sunday. It's the same thing. He's decrying and protesting not in a partisan or political way the horrific events of Bloody Sunday from the 1970s. And so I'm just trying to highlight, I think we as Americans, because we don't experience I mean think about how much like 9-11 disrupted us you know what I mean but like we don't have like other countries invading us and like this thing that's happening in our backyards day after day. But those who do, those who experience this in a more proximate way, I think, have their pulse on it in a way that we don't, and know how to decry it and lament it and protest against it.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I would. I would concur that in America it is far too permissible for even Jesus followers to act violently. Yes, and I think that's worth reckoning. Yeah, and I often it's not a political statement as much as like or I often— um you know, americanness.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a cultural conditioning towards violence and permission to do so. But the question is how does that integrate and reconcile with the teachings of Jesus? And at least, again, I'm not like a sociologist but I'm predominantly like a pastoral presence and a theologian who's studied scripture a lot. And I'm just going how does this fit with the way of Jesus? So? So let's get back to this passage for a moment. I'm just going how does this fit with the way of Jesus? So let's get back to this passage for a moment. And I want to submit as clearly as I can that Jesus in this text is not teaching mere passivity, which is a legitimate concern, to just remain passive in the face of evil. That is no good. But I also want to be very clear that what we're going to see is Jesus is countering our fallen defaults to resort to retaliation, to fight violence with violence, to exchange blow for blow. In other words, Jesus is going to push back on this fight response and the flight response. And Jesus is going to invite us into a different way, and I've just kind of named it kind of the kingdom way, a funny sort of label kingdom Aikido, and hopefully it's a metaphor that will stick but captures the essence of it. So another fun, just sort of rabbit trail on a strange word.
Speaker 1:But Aikido is a Japanese form of martial arts. Okay, but what makes it unique is rather than meeting force with force the way MMA fighters do, right? So if you've ever seen an MMA fight, it's like two people pummeling each other, right? Whoever comes out on the top wins. But the goal of Aikido is different. It's to use the opponent's energy or attack against them in a way that neutralizes the threat. Okay, so another way to think about this is Aikido doesn't seek to harm your opponent, but rather to disarm the opponent. If you're a fan of Karate Kid, like me, I've seen every movie and watched the entire Cobra Kai series. This is more Miyagi-Do than Cobra Kai, if you're tracking.
Speaker 1:I wanna suggest that Jesus is teaching something similar here. Instead of fight or flight, jesus is teaching a form of kingdom, aikido, like a nonviolent act of resistance that's actually rooted in love. So let's get into this text a little bit more. Jesus starts by quoting a teaching from Torah eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. This is known as the lex teliones.
Speaker 1:Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth this is known as the lex teliones. Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, and the entire point of this teaching was actually a good thing. It was to limit the amount of revenge one was allowed to take. So let's say, someone punches you in the face and knocks out a tooth. The whole point of lex teliones eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth was to limit your response. In other words, you weren't allowed then to like knock out all of their teeth If they only knocked out one. Your response was to be limited to what happened to you, which was a good thing, right, I don't know. Part of me thinks of like Wild Wild West movies where it's like someone insults you, what do you do?
Speaker 1:You gun them down. Yeah, okay, so this was like a good law or rule. It was to limit the response when you were wronged to the degree you were wronged in the first place. That was the intent, okay. But Jesus is going to say not that, but he's going to intensify and internalize that in a new way. Okay, and he does this by saying do not resist an evil person.
Speaker 1:Now, that's an unfortunate translation. The Greek word here refers throughout the Old Testament, in the Septuagint, which is the Greek translation of the Old Testament. In most of the times this word, this Greek word, is used. It refers to sort of violent encounters. So Jesus, in his response, when he says do not resist an evil person, he's basically saying he's forbidding a violent response. A better translation, and one that does not imply passivity, though, would be something like don't respond to evil with evil. So, instead of do not resist an evil person, what jesus is saying is do not resist evil with evil, or don't react violently to the one who treats you violently. Don't strike back at evil with evil. The translation I would offer would be don't oppose evil by mirroring it. Is this making sense? So it's not don't resist evil.
Speaker 1:It's resisted in a way such that you don't mirror it do something different yes, and and so again like to kind of summarize starts with Lex Talione's eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. He's saying, not that, don't respond to the way you've been mistreated with the same mistreatment in response. Don't retaliate that way. Instead, he's saying you need to be transformed from the inside out a theme throughout the Sermon on the Mount. You need to have God transform your heart, who you are as a person, such that you can actually love your enemies. And here's what that looks like it involves resisting them, resisting their evil, without mirroring it in response.
Speaker 1:Is this making sense? So far? Okay. Mirroring it in response Is this making sense? So far, okay? So, with that in mind, now Jesus is going to give three examples of what that looks like. He is going to turn the other cheek, then give your second coat away. Give your coat away and go the extra miles. Each of these are sort of we use the phrase imaginative gridlock. Each of these are providing imagination for what it looks like to respond to evil without mirroring it. So let's look at each one of these, okay. First example that Jesus gives to build our imagination of this third way, nonviolent resistance, is to turn the other cheek. He says if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. He says if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And with the passivity interpretation right, what do people do? They assume that Jesus is telling them don't hit back. In fact, turn the other cheek and let them keep hitting you.
Speaker 1:Basically invite more.
Speaker 2:And that's, I think, a natural interpretation On its face, on its face, on its face. Yeah, in English, in English.
Speaker 1:In English and, apart from doing some cultural study, that seems to be what Jesus is saying. I want to submit to you that's not what Jesus is saying, like not at all All right. So notice, let's break this down for just a second. Notice that Jesus says if someone slaps you on the right cheek, okay, that's an important detail. Why does he specify the right cheek? Well, he does so because that means this isn't a punch.
Speaker 1:Most people, just like today, are right-hand dominant. If I were to punch you, josiah, in the face, what cheek would I hit? Your left cheek. So we can already rule out this isn't a punch, which means it's a slap. But in this culture, you couldn't touch someone with your left hand, because that's what you use to wipe your ass. Your left hand was considered unclean, so you couldn't punch or slap someone with your left hand, and so what that means is this is a backhanded slap. This is being backhanded by, you're being backhanded by someone, which is what you would do when you were insulting someone's honor. Okay, so so follow this, this, this slap. When someone strikes you on the right cheek, the attempt isn't to injure, it's to insult or to humiliate, and this would have been a very normal way for someone with more honor or status. Remember this is an honor-shame culture. Someone who had more honor or more status could slap someone who has less. Like this really anytime.
Speaker 2:They want it All right, they're putting them in their place.
Speaker 1:Putting them in their place, all right, so. So typically then, if you were the recipient of a backhanded slap intended to insult you or whatever, you had no way to fight back, because that would be suicide. They have more honor, more status or so. So the only legitimate response people could imagine was to cower in submission, right. Retaliation fight would have been suicide, social suicide, and so typically passivity was the most prudent option.
Speaker 1:But Jesus is doing something different here. Notice, he doesn't instruct people to cower in submission, he's teaching kingdom Aikido. So he says turn the other cheek. So think about this. Now what cheek are you offering? You're offering your left cheek. You were hit on the right cheek, so now you're offering your left cheek. You were hit on the right cheek, so now you're offering your left cheek. But here's what that means the person can't backhand you again because your nose is in the way right. You're not offering them that cheek anymore, so they can't backhand you again. That's not an option. And he can't punch you or strike you with his left hand. Remember that's a no-go, that's not an option. And rather than cowering, you're now standing your ground. You've sort of regained some of your agency and it's as if you're saying try again. Why don't you try that again? Only this time, treat me as an equal and if I hit you with my right hand, an open-handed slap. That is something that you don't do to inferiors, but only to your equals.
Speaker 2:Interesting.
Speaker 1:So this is brilliant. I just think this is so brilliant because it's kingdom Aikido. You've resisted the insult, the evil, but you haven't become evil in the process. You've used the force of the attack and turned it on the person doing the attacking and now you've robbed them of their power to humiliate. They intended to humiliate you and insult you and you've stripped them of their power to dehumanize you because you've exposed the injustice and the sort of honor-shame dynamic for what it is and you're saying no, no, no, try again. Only this time You're going to humanize me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's fascinating Right.
Speaker 1:Right and so so much different than just like offer the cheek and absorb more wrongdoing.
Speaker 2:Here hit me again, here hit me again. Here hit me again.
Speaker 1:You're actually going. Hey, built into this backhanded slap is the assumption that I'm inferior to you, and by turning to you a cheek that assumes we're equal and removing the option to hit me in the left cheek again or the right cheek again, I'm basically saying no, no, no, no. You're no different than I am. Why don't you try that again? I'm basically saying no, no, no, no, you're no different than I am. Why don't you try that again? I think this is like so cool. That's really interesting.
Speaker 1:So cool. Okay, let's okay, keep thinking, because Jesus gives more than one example to kind of build this out. If he just gave that example, it'd be like, okay, but he gives a couple more. Then he says, with the next example, he says if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well, okay. So again, there might be a temptation to just go yeah, if someone's mistreating you or robbing you, just let them do it. No big deal. Right Again, not what Jesus is doing.
Speaker 1:The situation Jesus is alluding to here would have been really common for most first century Jews. Most of them were poor and, through oppression, had become in debt. In fact, when the Jewish people revolted against Rome and they overtook Masada, which was like kind of this fortress where they kept the record of debts, the very first thing they did is they destroyed that record of debts. That's how oppressed they were as a people. Okay, so the idea is that you're in debt, like most first century Jews, and you're so poor you can't pay your debt, and so the only thing that you have to offer as collateral are the clothes on your back, the clothes you're wearing. Okay, now follow this, because, again, first century Jews would have been aware of these dynamics. According to the Old Testament law, while garments could be offered as collateral so if all you have is the clothes on your back, those could be offered as collateral, but they had to be returned by sunset, because that's all the poor had to stay warm throughout the night.
Speaker 1:So the fact that this person is suing you for one of your garments shows you how ruthless they are. They're not even willing to follow the Old Testament law to make sure you make it through the night. Okay, so Jesus says man, he's suing you for your shirt. Give him your coat as well. And again, I want to submit to you this is brilliant. Most Jews had two garments the outer garment and the inner garment and this other person has taken one of them. And let's just be honest now you're really up a crick, because this person has all the power and leverage and he's taking you to court, and the court is most certainly going to side with him, because he's the one who has power and prestige in the community and all the resources. Okay, and so Jesus says when you get there, you know what he wants your shirt. Give him the other one too. He wants your outer garment. Give him your undergarment too. Which means what?
Speaker 2:You're naked.
Speaker 1:You're standing there, buck naked. But notice why this is brilliant. You've got to follow this for a moment. In this culture, we often think, oh, it's really shameful to be seen naked, but in this culture, causing someone else, oh, it's really shameful to be seen naked, but in this culture, causing someone else's nakedness was shameful. So in offering both garments, such that you're standing there naked, you're bringing shame on them.
Speaker 1:And again, it's kingdom Aikido. It's brilliant because the result is you're exposing greed at work. You're exposing the money lender. The money lender is not respectable, he's exploitative. That's how he's acting, and the court system is perpetuating this injustice. They're part of the problem. And so, in a rather comical way, yeah, you're now standing there naked, but really what's most exposed in all of its nakedness is the court system and this money lender. Not just you, but you're actually exposing them in a way that brings shame and disrepute and awareness to what's happening. You guys seeing this. So you've almost pushed the law to the point of absurdity, but in so doing, you're exposing the exploitation for what it is and again, I think this is brilliant. It's kingdom Aikido. I'm so excited right now.
Speaker 3:Like Jesus was brilliant. I wish people could see Max, I mean.
Speaker 1:Jesus is so brilliant To go, hey man. Here's another example where it seems like you have no recourse but, to just take it on the chin.
Speaker 1:And here's something creative you can do that not only regains, gives you a sense of agency in the moment, but actually turns the entire thing upside down and exposes the injustice and the exploitation and the oppression that seems to be winning. Okay, one more example, and then we'll unpack this for today. Okay. So then Jesus says if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Again, the situation Jesus is alluding to here is when a Roman soldier forced someone to carry his pack. Now, according to the law Roman law a soldier could require someone to carry his pack for one mile, but not for two. Okay, and in fact, the soldier could get into major trouble if he required someone to carry his stuff for more than one mile. Okay, so there's a limit there.
Speaker 1:And, of course imagine being a first century Jew they despised this permission they were given to force them to carry things because it was demeaning and it was a really obvious reminder that they're living under foreign oppression and they just want to be free of the Romans, right, they want to be their own sovereign nation. So, but, just like the other two examples, how do you fight Romans? Right, they want to be their own sovereign nation. So, but just like the other two examples, how do you fight back? Right, you fight back and you're going to be crucified. So, so it was really quite the pickle.
Speaker 1:So here's what Jesus says. He says when you get to the mile marker right, offer to go an extra one. And again it could seem like Jesus is once again take it on the chin, don't do anything. But I submit to you, it's missing the force of what's happening, far from just absorbing more mistreatment. Just like the first two examples, this is kingdom Aikido and it's brilliant. Jesus is giving you a way to reclaim your agency. So, instead of being forced to do something, you're now choosing to do something. Right, it's almost like your kids I do it myself. Right? Instead of forcing, being forced to do something, you're reclaiming your agency and you're choosing to do something.
Speaker 1:And notice, in offering to do this, you're going to completely throw the soldier off balance, because he's likely going to question what is your motive? Why are you going to go an extra mile? Are you suggesting that I'm not strong enough to carry my own pack? Are you insulting me? Are you going to go an extra mile so people think I've forced you to go beyond the one mile you're required to and try to get me in trouble, like what are you doing here? Right, and what he's going to do is demand that you give his pack back because otherwise you risk getting in trouble. And what a funny scene to have a Roman soldier begging a peasant Jew to give him his pack back, right, like it's kind of comical. Yeah, right, yeah. So once again, this is brilliant. It's kingdom Aikido. You're like the recipient of this injustice, this mistreatment, but rather than responding by just absorbing it or sort of fighting against it, you're actually doing something, rooted in your own agency, that exposes it for what it is right and reclaims your humanity and dignity. I think it's amazing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is. It's really cool to see how creative Jesus is. It's really cool to see how creative Jesus is, mm-hmm, you know, like I don't think we give him enough credit for his creativity and offering that not only as like a service to people, like thinking of creative ways, he's also like instructing them to act in the same way, and I find that refreshing that Jesus isn't expecting like. Jesus is not ignorant of the ways that people are oppressed, the ways that people are mistreated, and he offers them another way. I find that really inspiring. I think that one thing that makes it difficult is I don't remember the last time I was slapped across the face and I don't remember the last time a soldier asked me to carry his bag for a mile. I got slapped across the face this week, no.
Speaker 3:I did my son Griffin was angry at me wound up and slapped me on the face.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, that's what he does when he's dysregulated and he scratches and pinches and slaps.
Speaker 2:Was it a backhanded slap?
Speaker 1:No, it was not. It was intended to injure and harm. Did you turn no. Well, I have a strategy for Griffin that is rooted, hopefully, in love.
Speaker 3:Yes, but no, for real. There is a reality to the fact that these examples are very cultural to that time, and the people that Jesus was speaking to would have understood exactly the strategy that you're using to love your enemies while also reclaiming your own agency and resisting the evil intent of others. So they had lots of vision for that. I think we need some vision, for how does this look like practically in our day?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:You know what does this look like for us. The weapons our enemies use are not always the same Right as they were then.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's a fair point.
Speaker 1:I mean, apart from Griffin, who you know, I have not been punched in the face, slapped in the face, backhanded, I'm not forced to carry a pack right, and so these examples are very granular and sort of concrete to that day and age.
Speaker 1:They're sticky in that sense. But there is a 2,000-year cultural gap right where we don't experience this exact same dynamic, this exact same dynamic, and so one of the things that I've tried to do is sort of zoom out a little bit and go but what are the themes or principles in each of these examples that are embedded in each of these examples that could essentially become a scorecard or a framework to fill out our response in our cultural context? So I've noticed that each one of the examples that Jesus uses, all three of these, have some core components to them that I definitely think. Well, it won't give us exact imagination, for, however, someone's mistreating us, at least become like a checklist to go ah, my response should include these things, okay, so so, first one I noticed is just that, like in each one of these examples, it's very clear that you're not to respond in kind, right or whatever wrongdoing someone's doing to you. You don't respond by mirroring that wrongdoing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you don't slap back.
Speaker 1:Correct. You don't retaliate. That's the first thing. So, whatever your response and this is everywhere in the New Testament you guys, like Paul says, do not repay evil for evil in. Romans 12. So this is sort of principle number one If someone wrongs you, don't wrong them back. Number two in each one of these examples you see Jesus providing a way to reclaim agency. You're reclaiming your agency by doing something surprising and unexpected that in some way asserts your humanity and dignity.
Speaker 2:I love that part.
Speaker 1:Right there, wrongdoing is dehumanizing. In each one of these examples, the person responds by reclaiming their agency and their dignity. So, whatever your response is going to be, no matter what wrongdoing you're choosing, ie agency, and it's going to be asserting your value and worth as a human being.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it gives you. There's something you can actively do in the face of the injustice. Yes, even if it's you know something small.
Speaker 1:Yes. So don't respond in kind. Reclaim your agency in humanity. Thirdly, whatever you do to respond should function as a mirror. Each one of these examples that Jesus gives, in a sense, is holding up a mirror, so the person who's doing the wrong can see the wrong they're doing. You're exposing the dynamic at play right. With the first one, you're exposing the assumptions around honor and shame and insult and humiliation. With the last one, you're exposing the oppression that the Romans inflict upon the first century Jewish folks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it makes me think of the phrase from the Aikido definition you shared that you're using the opponent's energy against them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but not in a way to inflict harm, but rather in a way to expose or help them see the dynamic that they're caught up in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, right.
Speaker 1:So, in other words, if someone's an enemy, the mirror moment is to expose the antagonism or the way that they're orienting as an enemy. And then the fourth key ingredient, which is completely missed in the mere passivity interpretation, is that in holding up a mirror, you're actually inviting the other person to repent. So when you turn the other cheek, you give the opportunity for someone to repent of their honor. Shame game. When you give the extra garment away, you're inviting the court and the money lender to reform their ways. You're inviting the Roman to you know, stop oppressing people, but you haven't done it in a way that is retaliatory.
Speaker 2:You haven't scolded them.
Speaker 1:No, you've reclaimed your agency. You haven't responded in client kind. You've reclaimed your agency. You've held up a mirror to go. This is the dynamic and you have the opportunity to repent from it and in that way, you're actually loving your enemy, because this enemy-making cycle they're caught up in in the way they're treating you, isn't for their good, just as it isn't for your good for their good, just as it isn't for your good. This is why all three responses or examples Jesus gives are ultimately rooted in love. It's amazing. You're actually loving your enemy in a way that absorbs their wrongdoing, in a way holds up a mirror so they can see it and invites them to turn away from it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think you said this the passive response of just sort of taking it doesn't actually get there.
Speaker 1:No, it just invites them to perpetuate it more. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's ultimately not for their good either for you to passively keep receiving blows. That's right. It's not for their good. I mean, you could probably make a case for the fact that, if you want to try to make a case that this is for my good or for other people's good, maybe I'm absorbing some blows that would be meant for others, but in turn, enemy love is seeking out what's best for them and it's not in their best interest to keep abusing you in that way Right.
Speaker 1:And notice this is the impact of the gospel, right. So, god, despite the fact that we were enemies of God, god takes on flesh in such a way that sort of redeems our brokenness, but part of it is exposing it so that we can receive forgiveness. We have to reckon with where we are and then choose something different.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I really like the four themes you pulled out Don't respond unkind, reclaim your agency, hold up a mirror and invite repentance. I think that that does a helpful job of just sort of summarizing what it is we're talking about here. Does a helpful job of just sort of summarizing what it is we're talking about here, I guess. I'm curious can you guys think of any examples where you were able to do this or you tried to do this Like? What has this looked like in your own lives?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I have an example. I was having a difficult conversation with someone recently. It was over text. I won't share any more context on that.
Speaker 1:Okay, I haven't texted him in a while. Yeah, no, it's nobody in this room.
Speaker 2:We're both frantically yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:No, it was difficult and it was starting to get heated and this person said something that very much it was very much an attack on my character more than just an interpretation of events, and I had about, I had easily five things that I could throw right back in their face. It would have been very easy to like, escalate it, and that is one benefit of texting conversations is you do get a second to think about it, of texting conversations, is you do get a second to think about it? And, um, you know, honestly, this was before I really understood the whole Aikido concept, um, but I simply just responded by saying that was a really mean thing to say. That's all I said. And then it kind of the conversation kind of fizzled and then it was all a little disoriented and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3:But yeah, it was two days later the person texted me back and apologized.
Speaker 3:They named that they didn't mean for it to get so heated.
Speaker 3:They were more honest about why they were frustrated and named that it wasn't really to do with me as much as it was a realization of the circumstances and the whole thing. Like you know, I'm not giving myself too much credit because, honestly, some of my motivation might have been really just to like get them off my back, but it's cool to look at it in light of this, with these lenses on, yeah, that I had the chance to continue on the cycle, to fight back, or I could have avoided and ghosted, oversexed and I don't know. I sensed a third way, yeah, and just like it was just a mirror, like what you said was unnecessarily mean, and I want you to know that that's what I'm thinking right now and it was enough space and it ended up like having a good result. Now I think that we should be very clear that kingdom Aikido does not always equal, you know, a resolve within the matter. In fact, most of the time it probably won't if we have our expectations accurate.
Speaker 1:Because you can't control the other person's repentance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it invites repentance. It certainly doesn't guarantee it.
Speaker 3:Yes, doesn't guarantee it. Yes, yeah, but I'm looking at it with these lenses now and more than I even thought about it before this episode that you know. It's like I didn't respond in kind, wanted to, had to resist, that I was able to reclaim agency by naming my own dignity Like hey, don't appreciate that attack on my character. That isn't a fair assessment of what's going on. Held up a mirror. That's hurtful. Yep, You're mean to me. Well, yeah, I mean to name it.
Speaker 3:that's all I was doing it wasn't accusatory, it wasn't angry, it wasn't Just naming what this is Naming what's happening, and in the end it actually did lead to an admittance that hey, I was wrong here, right.
Speaker 1:And if you had my guess, since you said, like dude, four or five things you could have thrown right back in this person's face had you done that, what would have happened? It would have escalated, oh yeah. And what's interesting is that, with this person's response, you held up a mirror, you did all those things and then, a couple of days later and again, it's not a guarantee, but a couple of days later, that response not only freed them from the antagonism they were perpetuating in that moment with you, but provoked realization that something else was going on entirely.
Speaker 1:So that's why it was actually a loving move on your part, not just a self-defense move, but ended up being a profoundly loving thing that you were able to give the other person, because it freed them from their antagonism and created greater self-awareness.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I count that as nice to have a win.
Speaker 2:Yeah, with the thing.
Speaker 1:I've got stories. I mean, um, maybe this one, this, this one, um, I think captures some of the power dynamics that were at play in the examples Jesus gives. You know cause this can happen between peers where there's mistreatment. I'm guessing that the person you're talking to is more of a peer, not like? Well, it wasn't me, I'm not, I'm a boss, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3:But like it was Cameron. No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1:But I'm just saying like there were some power dynamics in all the examples.
Speaker 3:Jesus gave so.
Speaker 1:I was trying to think okay, when was there a power dynamic? So this goes back to when I first became a pastor, almost 17 years ago.
Speaker 1:It's a long time, mac. I know I'm old. So I preached for the first time during one of our weekend services and I'll just say I didn't. I'll be honest, like I didn't love preaching, still don't like feel like I need to do it. You know what I mean. That was my first time speaking in front of a group of adults. You know like I was nervous, whatever. Well, that week after I got done preaching, I was just feeling a sense of relief, like I did it. It's over. Another staff member steps into my office. Now, this is important because I'm a pastor on staff and the person who steps into my office is an administrative assistant for our worship team. At that point the worship team was four or five people. It was a much bigger sort of entity, but they're not in a director position, they're like an administrative assistant for the worship team. Okay, and you know me, I don't put a lot of like I don't know weight on titles, like everybody on our staff, as we're we're we're in it together, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:We don't operate right now out of a strong sense of hierarchy. But this woman steps into my office and she says hey, there are a couple things I think you could have done better in your sermon. So she launches into him and gives me some like constructive feedback and I'm like, well, this is like. I hardly know this person. They're an administrative assistant for a different department, they're not another pastor on staff and they're certainly not my boss. This is feeling a little bit weird to me. You know what I mean on staff and they're certainly not my boss. This is feeling a little bit weird to me. You know what I mean. But I just kind of was like okay, I generally don't like point things out or address things if it's not a pattern, you know, because people can be having a bad day or whatever. Maybe she's just being assertive that day, who knows.
Speaker 1:Well, the second time I preach same thing. It was like a couple of days I'm done. Knock on the door, come on in. I want to give you some feedback on what you could have done better. And I'm just like at this point, I'm like what is happening right now, like this is unsolicited advice. I haven't asked for it. Right Again, there's I can't find the organizational through line to go. This is appropriate. You know what I mean. Like again, you're in a different department, not a pastor, not my boss, I don't know what's going on here.
Speaker 1:And so I said that I'm like I don't what is happening here, like I haven't asked you for feedback, but you keep giving it to me.
Speaker 1:I've never seen you publicly speak, so like I'm not saying, like I can receive feedback from anybody, but like I'm not sure where your expertise is coming from, like I'm just confused by this. And she said well, at that point, my boss she said the person who was my boss invites my feedback and he wants me to be giving it to you the same way I give it to him. Okay, so notice the power dynamic. She's leveraging my boss's authority and his voice to say I have the right, or have been put in a position, to be the one giving you feedback. So what do I do? You know what I mean? It feels like I have like zero agency in this moment, except for to just receive feedback from someone that, like it feels awkward, odd and, quite frankly, at this point, not very helpful. So I said, okay, well, why don't you let me talk to my boss and get some clarity on that, and then I'll get back to you about whether this pattern should continue.
Speaker 2:Sounds fair.
Speaker 1:Right. I'm fairly confident like maybe 99% confident that she got to my boss before I could and sort of detailed our conversation that this was going to be coming his way. And the reason why I say that is because when I did finally get a chance to talk with him, it was very clear like he had a response right away. He was ready, he was ready and he said he basically said, if I can take her feedback, then you're not above taking her feedback, almost like bro, humble yourself, which just kind of for me I'm just being honest completely missed the mark, cause it's not me. I felt like, hey, it's not that I have a problem taking feedback, it's the person who's giving me feedback and that I have zero relationship with them. You know what I mean. And so far the way I've received that person's feedback has been very condescending and whatever. So I'm like, okay, well, now I feel like even more in a pickle because this other person feels empowered to give me feedback and now has the clear backing to keep giving me feedback.
Speaker 1:So here's what I did. I felt like this was sort of my kingdom Aikido moment. I went into this person's office and I said hey, I want to circle back to you on this dynamic of giving me feedback every time I'm done speaking. I said, hey, I got a chance to talk with my supervisor about it and he said, yes, he does want you to give you permission to give me feedback.
Speaker 1:And she gets like this little smirk on her face, kind of like I knew I told you so kind of a thing and I said so, I guess you have permission from him to keep giving me feedback. However, we don't really have a relationship with one another and so you have no relational credibility to give me feedback, nor have I asked you to give me feedback. So I want you to know that so long as you keep giving me feedback, you'll be wasting your breath until we have that kind of relationship. Here's what I thought I was doing in that moment in terms of Kingdom Aikido. I wasn't responding to evil in kind or wrongdoing in kind. That would involve me, kind of like looking at her job performance and then all of a sudden popping into her office and be like, hey, here's what you could be doing better.
Speaker 1:Ha ha, you know, like I didn't do that, be very satisfied.
Speaker 2:I wouldn't have even thought of that. That was good. Yeah, you know what I mean. Like it's not like I responded by critiquing her performance.
Speaker 1:I felt like a similar dynamic, like there's power and you feel kind of stuck, but instead I said here's what helpful feedback looks like and the context is relationship and you don't have that with me.
Speaker 1:So I'm exposing the dynamic, yeah, but then sort of casting vision, for here's what that would require for that to feel comfortable and appropriate. That would require for that for that to feel comfortable and appropriate, and I'm tilting the table towards her to go. Oh well, if I'm going to actually do the thing that I feel empowered to do, I need to build relationship with this person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 1:It does make sense, so I never got any feedback again, which to me, um, in one sense like okay, well, good, now I'm freed from like having unsolicited advice dumped on my desk every time I preach. But on the other hand, it would have been even better if she said oh, there's some relational growth for me, yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, it exposed her motive, right Because? If she genuinely wanted to help, I would imagine the invitation would have been hey, you're right, I want us all to get better. I feel like I have some good perspective. I've been listening to preachers for a long time. But you're right, we don't have a relationship. Can I take you out to lunch? Let's get to know each other. I want to build a good relationship.
Speaker 2:That would have exposed a more pure motive.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I really care about you, but the fact that it's radio silence after that exposes that the motive was not to help.
Speaker 1:What about you, katie, you?
Speaker 2:guys have really good examples and they're really deep. Can I just share kind of like a simple, funny example that comes to mind? Sure, so I am often told the story by my family about a time that I was five years old, maybe five or six, and I had this cousin that was my same age and we played a lot together. And apparently there's this one time I think it's caught in a family video we're running somewhere and she grabs me by the ponytail and pulls me back and goes I'm first and I keep running after her and I yell I'm second and there's only two of us, there's no third. And I guess my family tells a story because this is like so you, katie, just kind of oblivious to the competition or whatever.
Speaker 2:But I was thinking about this episode and I was like, huh, that was kind of Kingdom Aikido. I didn't retaliate by pulling her hair back or fighting for first place. I reclaimed agency in a sense by joyfully choosing to be second. That's a good point. Yeah, you could say I helded up a mirror. My response, I think, revealed how unnecessary the power grab was, and maybe I mean she was only five or six too but maybe made her reflect on her behavior. Without needing to scold or shame her and without saying a word, I actually kind of invited her into a different way. I hope I modeled that the relationship was more important than competition, like the competition was unnecessary, right Cause. Like I'm just here to hang out, we're just going to have fun.
Speaker 3:I think that's helpful, um, because in one sense, if you knew this and you're constructing the perfect response to someone who's wronging you in some sort of way, great Like Jesus is inviting us to do that. But it's kind of fun to use it as like a lens right To like put the glasses on to look back at your life and or look at other people's situations and be and sort of say, oh, I can see how that works and how that is something different. It's like an alternate way from the classic. You know, kids on the playground like you pulled my hair so I shove you to the ground and pretty soon.
Speaker 2:it's a fight, and that's kind of why the story is funny.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like you expect to respond in kind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it's worth reflecting. Okay, we're reflecting on examples where we may have gotten close to a Kingdom Aikido moment.
Speaker 3:We'll also reflect on the moments where you retaliated and I bet you got a laundry list of those and what happened after that, and I bet you can name how terribly it went, oh yeah, and how it sits with you. And then you walk away. I just remember okay, not to use the example too much, but I remember walking away from that conversation and again, I didn't have I just didn't have the reference to the Kingdom Aikido at the time but I remember walking away feeling much better about the whole thing and it wasn't resolved, of course. You felt better, I felt better because I can walk away with sort of like a clean conscience about the conversation. Yes, like I was engaged in it, I did my best, I was very frustrated and then at the end of it was able to like I'm going to put this in your court. Yeah, like I'm not going to respond the same way you did.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you would have felt super crummy if you had thrown the four or five things back in the person's face and then I would have went home and I would have been justifying all of my words and I would have tried to get as many people on my side as to try to like garner support that I was doing the right thing by telling them how it is. You're avoiding all that.
Speaker 1:You would have also felt really crummy, though, if you had just absorbed it, yep.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Or if I would have avoided it, yeah, both of those things would have felt really crummy. Or I would have said like I'm so sorry, yes, appeased.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'll give one more story just to fill it out. And I shared this when I preached on this. I don't know when that was. I shared this story at the end. But when I was in college I got tricked into taking Greek, and that's another story, but I had to take it. Yes, I got duped, but you know, I'm taking Koine Greek, which is what the New Testament is written in.
Speaker 1:And there was the classroom we were in. It was kind of broken into two sides and at one point, maybe halfway through the first or second semester, I can't remember when someone else in the class I was talking to them outside the class and they're like hey, do you know who Alex is from Greek class. And I'm like, oh yeah, he sits on the other side, you know whatever. And this person, she goes. Well, he has a nickname for you which was right away. I'm kind of like surprised because I don't know him very well. Why would he even be talking about me? But she goes, it's Ekthras, which if any of our listeners have taken Greek, they know that word means enemy. Literally he's calling me enemy and I'm like what is happening? But like this is so bizarre because I haven like what is happening Like this is so bizarre. Cause I haven't I don't think I've had an interaction with him. It's certainly not something that where I've like assaulted him or like you know what I mean. Well, anyway, it really it bothered me because I'm just like I couldn't piece it to. You, like why does this guy have so much animosity and given me this label and we even I can't even think of a single interaction we've had, animosity and given me this label and we even I can't even think of a single interaction we've had.
Speaker 1:And and, interestingly enough, at that time I was really big into memorizing scripture and I was memorizing Romans 12 and that little phrase do not repay evil for evil uh, stood out to me. So I'm like, okay, gosh, everything in me wants to like confront them or like gossip about them or whatever. But as I was memorizing that passage, I was like I'm going to do an experiment. So next time I walked into Greek class, I just very clearly walked past him and I gave him a genuine hello hey, alex, how you doing man, good to see you Sat down. And of course I mean, look on his face is like what just happened. And then the next time did the same thing and he was also a biblical studies and theology major.
Speaker 1:So we had another class together and then I decided to like up the intensity. Instead of just saying hi to him, really nicely, I'm gonna sit down next to him. So I sit down right next to him, I'm like, hey, alex, how you doing, what's going on? And I start asking him about his life. And I'd start asking him about his life, and then it just kind of kept building snowballing where, like every time I'd see him around campus, I'd make sure to like give him the warmest greeting possible how you doing, or whatever. Just to make a long story short, we ended up having a lot of classes together because Bethel wasn't a huge place and we were both in the same major and over time we became really good friends to the point where at one point I was like do you remember when you used to call me that? That's what I heard through the grapevine, Is that real? He's like, yeah, that was stupid of me and we laughed about. It. Ended up being an usher at my wedding.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 1:So obviously not every story is going to end like that, Like, oh, it would have been really easy to just kind of like not like him in response to him not liking me.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And just simply responding kindly in a way that didn't reinforce that I'm your enemy, turned enemies into friends, and that was a powerful moment for me.
Speaker 3:That reminds me of Steve Cuss.
Speaker 1:Yes, stevecusswordscom.
Speaker 3:What's the book? Managing Leadership.
Speaker 2:Anxiety.
Speaker 3:Yes, he gives. He talks about like emotional intelligence within leadership and he sort of has a breakdown on how to respond as a leader when people are doing certain things, and what does it look like? One of the things is when someone is giving you mixed signals like passive-aggressive type of tones where you're saying one thing but don't quite know what they're meaning by it.
Speaker 3:It raises anxiety within the system and he talks about what one of his favorite things to do when people are giving mixed signals is. If there are two different narratives that you could take from the thing someone is saying, he chooses the more positive one and just responds as if that's the only narrative to believe. Oh, funny.
Speaker 3:So in some ways, like someone could be like a passive-aggressive email, your mind goes through all the things of like oh, I know this person, I know what they're really saying and I know they're saying this, but they actually mean this and blah, blah, blah and all those things, and so their intent is to have an undertone of frustration often, sometimes things, and so their intent is to have an undertone of like frustration. Often. Sometimes it's genuinely just misunderstood. But your response then, as the leader, to alleviate the anxiety, is to just say, like I could believe two or three different things from this email and I'm going to choose to believe the best possible scenario and I'm going to respond as if that's the only way to respond to this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I, I, I do that, I'm realizing as you talk. I do that.
Speaker 2:But probably not with the maybe always with the purest motives, like like. Um, I remember a specific situation with someone that were like I'm fine. I was like, okay, good, I'm so glad you're fine, cause I was really worried that there was tension there.
Speaker 1:That might've been a little snarky, but then it forces them to be honest if they're really Right, yes, right, yeah oh that's great he gave, I remember, in the book.
Speaker 3:I don't remember all the details, but he gave a few different examples and it was funny and sometimes it exposes where the person comes to and be like no, I'm actually angry. Well then it's on them to own Right. Yeah, you know, but there's other times where you just hold it back and be like, okay, great, glad you're on board, and then they never say anything and the attention is gone because you kind of handed it back, so now it's in their court if they want to.
Speaker 1:Hey, honey, can I go out for a guy's night? Sure, Do whatever you want, okay, great Thanks. You are the best wife ever.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for being so supportive of my personal life.
Speaker 3:That's good, that's funny. One more example, and I think, maybe just to increase imagination, I'm also realizing that I tend to be the person who gives examples in parenting on this podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're the parenting guru.
Speaker 3:Well, I just seem to sit like that's just what resonates with me, you do have a lot of kids kids. I got a lot going on at my house.
Speaker 3:so, um, but I think this works with people who aren't your enemies too. Um, I think, especially within parenting, it's so easy, um, to power up when they're mean or they do something wrong, especially if they're being disrespectful. It is so tempting to like, because you know, in the power dynamic I can win this, and it's so difficult to lay that down. But being completely passive isn't helping them either. That's not in their best interest to let them walk all over you. So I have noticed that, especially with a couple of my kids, this works really well is simply just hold the mirror and name what they're saying, what they're doing. Like, hey, you're yelling at your dad right now. I just want you to know that You're yelling at me. Or I'll say things like, hey, hypothetically, hypothetically.
Speaker 1:This has never happened. No, they would never.
Speaker 3:I am very expressive and loud in big kids and so they're learning to regulate their emotions and so I want there to be freedom to do that and I don't want there to be tons of judgment and get down on them when they do Simply name like hey, I'm going to give you a chance here to notice what's happening. You're yelling at your dad or like you just hit your brother Like do you like? Like, because this happened, are you realizing what's happening? So sometimes just holding the mirror can help. I mean, it doesn't fix it, but it does. But it sort of reclaims an agency, because now the ball's in their court, it's not mine to can like, sometimes you have to do things, obviously to manage situations, but I don't know it. Just it reclaims the agency as a dad to be like, oh, they, they did say this, but I'm I'm sort of handing it back to them. Like, hey, you, you, you have a chance to change that response here, yeah, and I feel like that can be really helpful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and maybe just to highlight something that's important in these moments, because I experienced them in parenting too holding up a mirror isn't designed to shame or to condemn, but rather to invite. And that is different because we can hold up mirrors in ways that are shaming or condemning, rather than saying hey, this is the dynamic and I want something different for both of us you know yeah yeah, no, I think it helps a lot all right
Speaker 1:it's praxis time. Um, you know, we end each episode by going okay, in light of this sometimes theoretical, abstract dialogue, what can we actually do to live into this? So let's give our audience or listeners, a few concrete things they can do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so this is something you can do completely on your own, in your own reflection is just to identify where your default is, or like a. You could other put it like an, like a unsanctified default. What's your default mode? Is it fight or flight? And I would imagine this is different within different relationships.
Speaker 3:I'm probably more fight in some ways and flight in other relationships. But understanding your default is going to give you access to notice your response before you do it. So if I know let's just say I'm having a conversation with someone who is often frustrating and I know my default is to avoid the conversation or to run away from it, knowing that that default is going to give me a clearer picture of, oh, I wonder what the third way is, because it's probably not that. Or if I you know with my kids, if I tend to be more power up and into fight mode when things are threatened, I'm going to notice that and now I can keep that in my head as like, if my first response is to fight, there's a chance now to respond that, and now I can keep that in my head as like if my first response is to fight.
Speaker 3:There's a chance now to respond to it differently. So noticing your defaults is sort of like a can be, like a gateway into coming up with the. You know, inviting the Holy Spirit to think creatively about how to respond to people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can't tame what you can't name. So once you're able to go, oh yeah, I tend to shrink back and just absorb the wrongdoing. And here's the crummy feeling I get as a result because I'm not standing up for myself or whatever it is. Once you notice those patterns, it's really the first step towards going. Oh, then I can choose something different.
Speaker 2:Right, and that's why, with each of these episodes, I think taking time to reflect and journal and whatever is so important, because you got to be able to notice that stuff. Another practice I would name would be focus on responding rather than reacting. I think so much of our life is spent like responding to things happening. Think about it your spouse does something and you I'm sorry I meant to say so much of our life is spent on reacting. Your spouse does something that rubs you the wrong way, you react. Your kid does something, you react Like we're spending all this time just kind of bouncing off of each other.
Speaker 2:But Proverbs 15.1 says A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh words turns up anger. So rather than just again reacting to whatever your default is it might be flight, it might be fight just this idea of responding with intention in a way that diffuses the situation without letting people run us over, but reclaiming our agency and choosing how do I want to respond to that, and that again ties back into that reclaiming our agency. We're taking more ownership over how I want to respond, as opposed to just this visceral reaction that we would normally have.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and feel free to use that. I mean, you tried to pull out some of the common pieces in each one of the examples Jesus gave. Right, you're not responding kind, you're reclaiming your agency, holding up a mirror and then inviting repentance. When you think about responding versus reacting, you could use those four categories to go, assuming there's time to reflect, is my response sort of hitting these, checking these boxes, you know? And then, finally, I just say start small. And, josiah, that's why I am grateful you brought up parenting, because there's so many moments where there's opportunities to hold up a mirror in a way that invites a different way of relating. If you're a parent, there's daily opportunities to do this. Start small.
Speaker 1:I mean, we were joking about Griffin, but a lot of what I'm doing is that he has Down syndrome and is on the spectrum, and so when he is in an environment or experiencing something that he doesn't like and becomes dysregulated, his way of saying I don't like this is pinching and scratching and so on, which stinks right, and it's not okay for him to pinch, scratch and bite and do all those things. But what does it look like to respond to him? Well, it's not bite his arm and go see, you know what I mean. Or scratch him back, and so we've had to work really hard and to some degree it's been experimental to go okay, but what does it look like to go? Ow, that hurts. So he becomes aware of that. That doesn't feel good, and then my strategy is to just scoop him up in my arms and give him a massive hug and just say hey, and then you know, this is what it could be.
Speaker 2:When you're dysregulated.
Speaker 1:Know that there's love waiting for you, Anyway. So start small, Don't wait for the big things. Get to practicing right away. Thanks for joining us today. We hope that you enjoyed today's conversation. Next time we're gonna start a brand new series that we're pretty jazzed about. That's all I'm gonna say about it, so stay tuned.
Speaker 2:Praxis is recorded and produced at Crosspoint Community Church. You can find out more about the show and our church at crosspointwicom. If you have any questions, concerns or any suggestions for future topics, feel free to send us an email. Also, if you enjoy the show, consider leaving a review and if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe. Wherever you get your podcasts.
